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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think women should support other women more

115 replies

Moonshild · 28/10/2023 13:32

As I get older - I'm early 50's - I have noticed quite how unsupportive women can be to each other and I think we all need to change this.

Generally married women and women in relationships have a smug unsympathetic air about them towards single women/parents.

I can't decide if it has always been this way or is just getting worse.

Doing things on your own - with a partner in the background - is VERY different to doing everything on your own with no partner.

Regardless of how unhelpful many men can be - there is someone there when you come home after work and to share the costs of life.

If you have no one you can be very much alone and I see so many women being unsympathetic to their single friends on so many levels.

My own experience is that I am divorced with two grown up children. I have been on my own since separating - I have made a few attempts to date but have found it both stressful and depressing.
I divorced because my ex was emotionally abusive and despite the fact he has a new partner - continues to attempt to get at me through our children. I am still helping our children to emotionally deal with him.

Most of my friends are in couples. But I find it increasingly hard listening to them discussing the events they are going to/ organising both with and without partners. I am rarely included.
They know my situation, they know I am on a low income in an expensive area and no I probably could not afford to do a lot of the things they do BUT it would be nice to be asked and have the choice to say no.

So that I don't become a complete hermit I go to the local pub for a drink once a week. I used to work there so feel comfortable to go in alone.

I am fully aware that there are lots of women alone out there like myself but what I have noticed more and more is that these women become more and more isolated.
When I was first separated - I noticed that women stopped inviting me to parties etc because I was deemed a threat - as a single woman and having spoken to other women they have experienced the same thing.
I DONT WANT YOUR HUSBAND/PARTNER.

This should not be happening - what is wrong with women? No one knows when they might end up in the same situation - have some sympathy and give some time to those women who struggle on regardless.

We might put on a good front that we are fine but I can guarantee at least 90% shed tears regularly because:
We are lonely
We are worried about paying rent and bills
We are struggling to deal with our ex's
We are trying to support our children - whatever their age - emotionally
We need a hug or someone to care
We are struggling with our emotions

If you have a single female friend - don't tell them how they should be improving their life - its easy to offer advise and make decisions in a relationship:
Just listen to them
Invite them for coffee
Call/text them
Don't look at them as a threat to your relationship
Just include them even if they say no

But mainly be KIND - you might be them one day

OP posts:

EmpressaurusOfCats · 29/10/2023 15:57

I’ve made a lot of my friends through feminist campaigning, also evening classes, volunteering & work.

As for being happy on my own, I’m just built that way - I got divorced almost 10 years ago & realised very quickly that I’m happiest & healthiest, both mentally & physically, when I’m not living with anyone. Except cats.

tianabiscuit · 29/10/2023 15:57

OP, my perception from your initial post (I haven't seen if there have been any subsequent yet) is that you are demanding g support whilst being quite unkind and generally unsupportive towards your married friend.

Beezknees · 29/10/2023 16:04

Britneyfan · 29/10/2023 15:49

@JFT say I think there is still quite a bit of stigma towards single mothers and divorcees, but yes older single childless women too in my opinion. It’s not the same for single dads at all of course… I agree the stigmas have reduced significantly compared to a few decades ago but they’re still there, more in certain social circles. For example I am from a relatively conservative Christian circle, I definitely feel the stigma of being divorced and a single mother there.

I am totally with you on the concept of a sisterhood. We face so many difficulties as women that men just do not.

I think part of the issue is that each of us experience a different set of challenges depending on our circumstances and personality. For example it does not surprise me that someone who is a widow does not experience the same sense of social exclusion; this is a totally different set of circumstances; I am not envious of widows as they have a horrible set of problems of their own, but I do wish people would reach out as much to people after divorce as much as they do after someone is widowed. And also to their permanently single friends. If people are totally happy with their lives and don’t feel they want or need any support or social contact that’s great but I can’t see anyone being offended by someone genuinely reaching out to them in a caring way to check in with them that they don’t need anything from them. Thanks to the pp who has reflected and is able to see that in hindsight their divorced friends were probably finding life very tough and could have done with more support.

When I have done single parent holidays in the past, they’ve been great but it does usually end up dividing into those who are divorced, those who are widowed, and those who have never been married (sometimes this includes a 4th category of those who have chosen to become single mothers from the outset). We all have some things in common but we are better able to relate to each other within those groups.

I did go on a solo traveller holiday once shortly after I split up with my ex (I left the then toddler with my parents for the week), which was also great, but people were shocked that I was a mother! I was the only one who wasn’t single and childless, other than one person who had been widowed very young. I think it was called Friendship Travel. You should check it out! OP too. There was a nice balance of sexes there too.

I also agree with some of the suggestions for getting to know people put forward by a pp, but the problem is they are often pretty much exclusively female groups, and if you would ideally like to meet a possible partner as well as some new friends, it’s nice to have a more balanced group.

I’m honestly in awe of people who are so super happy with their single lives and I’m genuinely interested in what makes them so happy to be on their own and how they meet their needs for some sort of social life. I’m sure personality and also circumstances have a lot to do with it. I’m from N Ireland originally and have moved around the U.K. a lot, I’m quite envious of a local single mum I know who has all her childhood friends and family members living right round the corner for example. I still keep in touch with school and uni friends but they are all over the place these days, particularly my single never married childfree friends who all live in other countries these days. I have plenty of friends but not enough local ones. It is harder to make friends later in life and I think that women who are juggling a job, small children and a husband often literally just don’t have time or energy or headspace for friendship. It’s sad but I am seeing a bit of that finally returning in some of my friendships as our kids become teens. I’m hopeful that later in life they’ll be freer to hang out more again.

I have a great group of friends and I genuinely enjoy my own company. Yesterday I met up with friends, today I have spent all on my own but I'm fine with that. A lot of my friends are childfree by choice so they're happy to go out and do things. I spend time with my mum sometimes who is also single.

I have an older teenager but obviously he doesn't want to socialise with mum much any more. I haven't holidayed alone yet but when I do I will go on holidays specifically organised for solo travellers. Group tours and things like that.

Britneyfan · 29/10/2023 16:08

@EmpressaurusOfCats thanks for answering, I work but in a highly pressured job where none of us ever have any time for chitchat. During the last Labour government was the last time I had work friends! I volunteer with cub scouts as well and do have some contacts through that. I’m looking at doing a creative writing or artistic evening class. I definitely need to build up my social connections more, especially now that my child is a teenager, a lot of my life has completely revolved around him but I know I need to build up more of a life of my own. I’d love to be happier on my own and I for sure am happier than when I was in an abusive marriage, but the truth is that I feel like I am my best and happiest and most authentic self when I’m in a (healthy!) relationship.

Britneyfan · 29/10/2023 16:10

@Beezknees yeah I think I definitely need to build up my friendship group more. I’m sure you’ll have a great time doing group solo holidays. I thoroughly enjoyed the one I did and several single parent ones.

EmpressaurusOfCats · 29/10/2023 16:17

Good luck @Britneyfan!

I think what works is different for everyone. My evening classes are yoga & Italian - the Italian one especially makes it easy to get to know people since we spend a lot of the class chatting or working in groups.

mouldyfalafel · 29/10/2023 17:26

I don’t expect anything of other people but I invite people over and to meet up but it doesn’t seem to go both ways and at the moment I’m a bit fed up with it.
I’m actually quite shocked at how unpleasant some of the responses have been but it also shows that sadly the world is not a very kind place

Yes, it shows that SOME people arent great at reciprocating and arent very nice people. I know single people like this too. It doesnt mean that getting married turns all women into unpleasant people which is what you are implying. One of my friends isnt very reciprocal at all and she's not married. Whats her excuse then?

arethereanyleftatall · 29/10/2023 18:19

'I’m honestly in awe of people who are so super happy with their single lives and I’m genuinely interested in what makes them so happy to be on their own and how they meet their needs for some sort of social life'

I'm not sure there's much to be in awe of tbh!

Simply - social life - I prefer the company generally of females , they communicate better/more. I'm nearly 50, was married twenty years, and I could probably count on one hand the amount of decent deep conversations I've had with men, whereas I'll go for a 3 hour walk with a (different) female friend each week and we won't stop nattering and laughing. I'm sure there are men about who can communicate as well as women, but I've never met one.

Home life - I prefer to be on my own in my own house. I like the peace of it, the freedom to make all my own decisions. Even a little one 'what shall we have for dinner?' I couldn't be arsed with that. I'll have what I want. I'll go to bed when I want. And I'll fart when I'm in it. I'll do the dishes when I want. I won't ever get upset with anyone for not doing the dishes. Tbh, I think I'm the privileged one, living alone is bliss and a luxury most people can't afford.

I have hobbies I really enjoy. I do them as much as I want to.

Sex. It isn't hard to come by at all. Pop a profile on tinder and you can be having sex that night. As I'd rather have sex with someone o like, I don't personally use that as an option, but have dabbled in the past.

But for me, that's the only thing you can't get from a woman (if you're heterosexual), and I miss it, but the price of giving up my freedom is too high.

ExTheCheater · 29/10/2023 18:53

I'm a single parent and think yabu. Don't feel like I'm treated differently at all.

derma56 · 29/10/2023 19:22

Hmmm. Something doesnt feel right here.

You said this not that long ago: "I have never really had close female friends and I'm fine with that".

Seems to me like you are the one holding people at a distance.

funinthesun19 · 29/10/2023 19:31

I don’t actually want a social life. I’m not bothered about any of it. People might think I am a misery guts and weird, but I feel really peaceful and happy just looking after me and my kids without having to maintain friendships and a relationship.

The friends that I do have are happy to just on with their own lives too, and don’t mither to meet up every week which I would find exhausting. I like those kinds of people.
As a single mum who enjoys her own company and likes being her own boss, the less adults I have to think about the better.

Original poster

Moonshild · 29/10/2023 20:02

That is not what I was trying to say

OP posts:

funinthesun19 · 29/10/2023 20:07

Is that post to me, OP?

JFT · 29/10/2023 20:30

funinthesun19 · 29/10/2023 19:31

I would imagine that being a mum, even if a solo parent, imbues one's life with a sense of purpose and meaning? And that whilst the children are of an age where they still live in the home and are relatively young (say under 25) and probably create quite a lot of 'busy-ness' and human interaction by default?

I've realised of late that I'm unhappy with my low level of social interactions and social life (lack of) due to a variety of factors that I'll attend to in the future over time -but- it's transpired to be fairly soul destroying in my experience being over 50, living alone in a quite brutal zero community type environment, albeit high density housing, and also no pets even (to the person who mentioned cats, I never felt alone when I had my cats for good company!). Suppose that's why I related somewhat to the OP's situation. For me, I need to wait for major surgery before I can tackle my life problems which is incredibly frustrating. Therefore I shall need to think how to manage the feelings that come with my circumstances.

DupontsYellowDressingGown · 29/10/2023 21:15

Not RTFT but whenever I hear this cliched phrase, or see it on some twee poster I think of Priti Patel, Suella Braverman and the ilk. I will use my brain and think for myself and judge whether someone's values align with mine before I decide to support them.

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