To cut off friend of nearly 30 years?

[Seakayaker100]

Name changed as very outing.
I have a very good friend, been with me through lots of life's milestones, always there when I've needed her. Now I feel like the worst friend as I can't be there for her right now. Her ex has been arrested and remanded out of the blue, and turns out he has been caught in an undercover online sting and arrested when arriving at a house to carry out child sex abuse that had been planned online with an undercover police officer. She's in pieces and is verging on suicidal, but wants to stand by him. Has visited him on remand, is listening to his excuses and even justifying that there wasn't a victim so not that bad. I've said no, I can't support her in this, and that despite not being convicted yet, I want no part in anything or anyone involved with him. When they were dating, she brought him to my house and to watch my son in a school event. She seems confused why that is upsetting me. I feel guilty to desert her when she's suicidal, but I can't play any part in this. (She has other MH services involved).
Please tell me I'm not being unreasonable, or if you think I am, explain why? His shitty choices have ruined a great friendship, but I'm more upset about how poor her boundaries are with this. This is no doubt due to her mental health, but I can't see a way to support her that doesn't involve listening to her making excuses and down playing what he's done.

YANBU but I think in your position I might make it clear that I would try to support her, but not him if that’s possible? So try to keep the friendship going to an extent but make it clear that you can’t get involved in her decisions to remain with him, you can just help her with her own mental health (like recommending therapy etc). I say this because I think there’s a reasonable chance that after the initial shock she may well change her mind and it would be helpful to have the support to leave, rather than being completely isolated at that point.

Also, remember the victims of Nick, Edward Heath, Cliff Richards some senior military officers and politicians. For 12 months their friends left them saying and thinking exactly as you are. They were innocent.

Are you mad? FFS, none of those people were caught by undercover police officers making arrangements with other paedophiles to meet up at a house to abuse children. None of them were even arrested, as far I'm aware, let alone charged with anything. Edward Heath died in 2005, long before anyone named him, and was therefore not left by his friends. In fact, I'm pretty sure none of those people were left by their friends, because their situation was one of the police simply looking into an accusation and finding zero evidence, not one of being caught in the act of plotting to rape a child, charged and remanded. It is NOT REMOTELY THE SAME.

Frankly, you sound as bad as the OP's bloody friend. Get a grip.

YANBU OP, is he really an ex? You could never fully trust her again if she is in anyway involved with him, that’s the only way to protect your children.

I’ve said YABU but hear me out. I’m talking here as someone who was sexually abused as a child and the impact of this has completely blown my life apart.

At this stage, she will be in shock and denial. This is huge for her. The man she loved and was married to is a monster and her whole marriage was lie. This is a lot for someone to digest and her brain will be trying in all sorts of ways to deal with this, including denial, trying to minimise it. I don’t think I could completely process being married to such a monsterous man in a short space of time. She will need time and support to come to terms with it. I hope the MH services she’s engaging with are able to support her long term with this. This is traumatic for her and is on top of other MH issues. I would guess that at this point, she does not have capacity to process the significance of what her husband has done and the impact he could have had on a child’s life…or may has already had, depending on what comes out of the investigations.

However, you are absolutely right not to go along with her minimising it and making excuses. She needs firmness and consistency and the message to be reinforced that what he has done is serious and that she cannot stand by what he has done. I understand if you don’t feel you can do this. And it isn’t your responsibility. But if you could support her while firmly standing your ground and maintaining your own boundaries and well being, then having your support could help her with this. It’s a difficult line. You definitely don’t have to support her but is there a way you could be in the background while she tries to work some of this stuff out. It may just take her a while to see the situation for what it really is.

if she never changes her view then I don’t know where you go…and what is the time frame in such a thing…I don’t know.

but my guess is she doesn’t condone what he’s done…it’s just way too horrific for her to process.

I think I' actually have more sympathy if he was her current partner. But he is an ex, and one assumes therefore she's full aware he's not perfect. It's hard to understand why she is sticking by him then. And certainly suggests a very disordered relationship.

@LookingForPurpose what you and your family are going through sounds truly awful and I am so sorry you have had to face it. It does sound like you have not really had the support you need and that while your son's behaviour was clearly not acceptable, he has been scapegoated. I hope that you all find a way through this in due course. Unmumsnetty hugs and even some xxx

I would give her time to come to terms with it. You don't need to condone what he did by supporting her. Having been in a similar situation (though he didn't arrange to meet, just communication, which was bad enough), but we were still married, she is probably still in shock. And also, these things aren't as black and white as people like to think. There is a lovely community of parents/partners/children of offenders who support each other, and I hope she's been given their information. It's an incredibly lonely and confusing time.

So if the police told you today that one of your dearest loved ones had been arrested for sex offenses against children, you would just instantly be able to compute that information? Your brain would just immediately accept that this person you love - possibly have loved for decades - is in not the person you have known all this time, but is in fact a monster of the worst kind? And you didn't spot it.

I think with a bit of emotional intelligence it's not really difficult to see why women sometimes find it exceptionally difficult and traumatic to accept the reality in these situations and why there may be a period of denial or minimisation, hopefully before they are able to accept what has happened and deal with it appropriately. I don't think that vilifying women who are still reeling from the discovery that their husband/son/partner etc is a pedophile is at all helpful. It's just misogyny, basically. Blaming women for men's crimes. I mean, there are people on here saying that these women are "on the same level" as the men who actually rape children.

Read the OP's other comments in the thread.

The man is not her friend's husband or even her boyfriend. He is an ex - they didn't even live together even when they were a couple. He's literally just a bloke she dated for a while. They have no ties to one another.

This isn't a situation where a woman's life has been turned upside-down by an accusation against the husband or partner she shares her whole life with. It's a situation where a man someone used to date was caught in the act of planning and trying to attend the rape of a child, and his ex-girlfriend has inexplicably decided that this is the time to rekindle her previous relationship with him. Very different.

Why is she standing by and visiting an ex anyway?

I have friends as old as this.

I would end the friendship this is not negotiable op. A red line.

Tell her why, that you will always care but can’t see or support her any longer. Maybe this action will help show her what a terrible mistake she is making. People will find out and tar her with the same brush.

Hugely tough situation to be in.
please give her time. Her whole world has exploded and it takes a huge amount of time to process everything and try to understand what’s going on. Believe me I’ve been in a situation similar to her. She’ll desperately want to believe that it’s not right, that she should have known if it was happening, her belief in people has been rocked to the core too.

You may need to withdraw from her for a while if you find you are hitting a brick wall with her, but the hurt, the truth and the realisation will come in time for her. If she reaches out to you then, would you be prepared to extend an olive branch?

For me talking things through with my friends was a huge part of processing what went was going on and I’m very grateful to them for getting me through that time. But understandably it’s hard to hear that she believes his innocence and excuses whilst you know he wouldn’t be on remand without evidence.

Remember she’s not the guilty party in this and she’ll be trying to navigate the situation without having any reference points of how to do so.

It’s still early and she can’t bring herself to see the truth. Doesn’t mean she won’t. From what you’ve said you know she probably only feels this way because she’s not in a good place mentally and while you don’t judge her for that, why would you, you can’t sit and listen to his excuses coming out of her mouth.

Pretending otherwise wouldn’t be friendship, sometimes friendship is doing exactly what you’re doing now, being honest even at the expense of the relationship. It would be wrong to pretend to her as well, because she’s in danger herself. What will her life be if she stands by this man?

What happened before she knew wasn’t of her making, and she’s not to blame. But there is no excuse she can offer for him, and no mitigation either, that will change your view of him. So I’d possibly tell her that. Unless you think it might be more than she can stand. If so, take a big step away and wait and see what time does. Agree with the PPs who’ve mentioned they’ve defended their own abusers. It’s not so easy to have clarity when you’re in the situation.

I would just tell her you will be there for her but she has to make a choice between him and you. He is a paedophile. If SHE chooses him, she has ended the 30 year friendship, not you.

I would also worry (and be suspicious) about her minimising what he's done tbf and why she is so keen to keep in touch and support him if he's an ex and they aren't married, that's a little red flag quite frankly.

If this is your stance, what do you want from this post? Loads of people telling you that you're right?

Only you know if you're capable of giving her time, or if you can't abide by any of it.

Me personally, I don't think I could walk away from my friend of 30 years, who I presumably loved, especially whilst they're suicidal. But then I've experienced suicide and maybe that shapes me a bit.

Your friend has nothing to do with her ex partners behaviour. This is a shock to you, imagine what its like to be her right now. By standing by her temporarily you're not condoning him, but you would be giving her the benefit of the doubt to gather her self on this matter. If this is still her stance in a few weeks, then I'd walk away, but right now, if this was was your partner, would you literally drop him as if he never existed? Or would you be confused, wondering why, feeling guilty and not know what was up and what was down? Sometimes its hard to say confidently what you'd do until you were in the situation.

Classic Kubler-Ross territory … shock & denial being the first two stages, which is where I guess your friend is.
It’s a cycle she needs to go through

He's been on remand for four weeks and bail was denied at a separate hearing. I'm thinking the evidence is very strong and he doesn't seem to be denying it but more that he made an error in judgement/wouldn't have actually done anything.
I am continuing to message my friend to check in on her, but I'm not asking or discussing anything about him. She knows where I stand and seems to have got the message today that I don't want anymore than to check she is alright.

She has mh issues I'd also be wondering if he's been coercive

How long ago did they split up? Has she been hoping that they would get back together? That might explain why she's defending him.

I think you could make it clear that you can't be a part of this without cutting off the friendship completely.

She hasn't been accused of anything and she sounds very vulnerable. If all her friends desert her she will have no one but him. She will never come through this if he is her only source of information or comfort.

Bail is rarely denied. The courts must have significant concerns that he will reoffend/is a risk.

Why is you friend supporting an EX and going to visit him to jail? Why is she defending a pedophile? You need to cut loses with this person. She's completely delusional.

The thing is, if everyone drops her she's just going to be pushed towards him more and will have no one in her life to challenge the rubbish he's feeding her.

I feel like there is more to this story. I would be upset/angry if I heard an ex was arrested for something like this but it wouldn't make me suicidal.

I don't think she's in her right mind at all right now. If you want to cut the friendship dead, that's entirely your prerogative. You don't need to support her in supporting him but I'm not sure I'd totally abandon such a long standing friend.

I don't understand why she is supporting an ex???

Would she not be sick to the core to think she had sex with a man like this?!

@EmpressSoleil I feel like there is more to this story. I would be upset/angry if I heard an ex was arrested for something like this but it wouldn't make me suicidal.

Exactly, unless he has children with this man he's you EX, he's not part of your life any more. It's shocking, upsetting etc.... but why is she feeling suicidal? I believe there's more to this story that she's not telling.

Another thing I’d add is if you tell your friend about the Stop It Now website, try not to look at it yourself. It’s an open forum like MN and you can click on any post to have a read. So many people on there stand by their partners and it’s quite depressing to read.

She may want to speak with other people about the situation instead of trying to get support from yourself. Good luck