To think he should be expelled for threatening me outside school?

[fedupteacher9]

Do I just need to suck it up ?

I am being routinely assaulted and threatened by students in my new job which I have been at for one term.

I am currently in a support role (school librarian) after leaving teaching, thinking the pay cut would be worth less mental anguish of abuse from students.

I have had 2 books thrown at my head by 2 different students. One was expelled and then unexpelled because the school feared being fined by the LA for incorrect expulsion. When he was unexpelled, I was aghast that he felt comfortable coming back into my library and sitting on his phone when he was meant to be in his lesson. Multiple times I had to get on call to remove him. SLT have obviously not taken this seriously.

The second boy has yet to face consequences. Headmaster told me his punishment would be a year ban from the library: for assaulting me?! Am I crazy?

If I told you what happened today, you wouldn't believe me. On the street I live on, a student approaches me and my partner and points a watergun at me. 'I should shoot you for kicking me out the library'. My partner just said 'come on lads, behave' and we walked away. This is my dream job, I competed with 50 other candidates for it, and one term in and I am applying elsewhere, to private schools where this shit won't happen.

If you are wondering why this is happening, these boys are retaliating to being removed or banned from the library by me for poor behaviour, truculence, abuse of staff or insubordination. I am not raising my voice at any of these boys.

I'm fucking livid.

It's rarely private Vs state realistically. It's school Vs school and much depends on the SLT in place. My whole point was aimed at another poster who said their child attended 3 private schools and this has never happened. Parents don't realise that not even teachers are privy to details of safeguarding concerns (it's on a need to know basis) so it's unlikely an event like this would even be general knowledge unless the gremlin in question shared it (likely).
There's tons of shitty private schools where behaviour of entitled rich kids is appeased as the school needs money. There's tons where this wouldn't be tolerated for a second even if they were going bankrupt. I'm not the one that brought up state Vs private, I'm just making a point that it happens in all sectors and 'riff raff' comes in rich form too.

Yanbu particularly that you endured this when not at the school, so you can’t feel safe at home or work.

The school should take it more seriously.

I must say I think it’s just the type of student at the school, I don’t think my school was like this, so hopefully when you do move jobs it’s to a nicer school where you can enjoy your job.

NO ONE should be assaulted in the course of their jobs. And NO ONE should feel threatened in the street. FFS. I can't actually believe there are apologists for this behaviour on here.

Please report to your school OP. I would also report to the police (although they will probably do nothing). If SLT take no action, look for another job. There are schools out there who would value you and never tolerate their staff being treated like this.

Worrying that some posters have such low standards. If my DC’s behaved like this (they wouldn’t dare) I would expect the school/police to punish them severely.
My expectations (parent and former school governor) are high on behaviour.

Just catching up with this from yesterday. OP, you have my total sympathy, and despite some crazy and extreme comments on here, clearly 90% of posters agree with you.

It's highly ironic that we're all supposed to guard our boundaries nowadays (MN is packed full of urges to have and maintain boundaries) but apparently this doesn't apply to teachers/support staff and their feral students. If not, then why not? I wish every teacher who had to put up with this was in a strong enough financial position just to walk straight out of the school, having told the Head where they could shove the job. Things would change, and smartish.

The situation will never get better for either students or staff while kids know they can get away with what is in effect criminal behaviour. I cannot get my head around the people who are attacking OP for 'being in the wrong job'. OP is a librarian, not an all-in wrestler or martial arts expert. That's the job they applied for and quite reasonably expect to be able to do. Great to know that SEN students are routinely dumped in the Library, btw.

School Librarians are not paid as teachers and will not have had the training in behaviour management - so please don't attack OP for that. What they need is support from the SLT and other staff.

I truly believe that the problem is educationalists who peddle the sort of stuff being spouted by some pps on here. I blame them for the mess we're in far more than the unruly students.

So what if it was just a water pistol? A kid finding a teacher outside of school and soaking her would NEVER fucking fly where Im from my dad would of belted me if I'd done something like that. And you don't know it contained water could of been urine, Blech, urine mixed with sh*t. Maybe these spoilt out of control brats need to stop being "drama llamas" and fucking behave. Hilarious that people make the excuse "be grateful the precious darling just had a water pistol and didnt shoot you dead with a real one 😂

Yes I agree violence is unacceptable - that's a no-brainer. And I'm not saying there shouldn't be any consequence.

But the interesting question to me is where the line is drawn. Call me naive, or whatever you like, but to me, we're really not talking excludable behaviour here. It sounds like kids acting out and not a lot more. Obviously, like everyone else sharing their thoughts, I wasn't there and there's a lot of context we can't know which would inform how serious this really was. Personally, from what I've read, it wasn't 'that bad'. Again - I'm not saying it's okay - just there's a scale.

I've been lucky as an adult not to be assaulted physically but as a teenager I was pretty mercilessly bullied at secondary school. I got books and all sorts regularly thrown at me on the bus home, whacked with tennis rackets, you name it I was a magnet for it. None of those people got excluded for their violence. They stayed in education and got ironed out within the system so they're now perfectly nice chaps. If they'd got excluded, there is a hugely higher chance they disengage from society further and become more problematic, cost all us tax-payers inordinate amounts of money and untold damage to our society.

That's just my opinion. It's not to deny an awful experience by the OP. It's just a different view on what the consequences should be.

Acting up or not - an adult working at the school has told them to do something - they should do it immediately - no stupid behaviour. All actions have consequences. Unfortunately many children/teenagers aren’t taught that.

All I've got to say is that if you think private schools are any better thing again.

I work with a family with two kids in private schools, one is one of the top performing in the country. They blew up a toilet recently (proper explosion, bowl went to pieces not just water overflow), regularly prank teachers and other students with various quite dangerous things, honestly the stuff I've heard from the elder one you would be kicked out of public schools in a heartbeat for.

Because their parents pay thousands of pounds and often donate to the school, they don't so much as a get a detention.

And People wonder why our MP's, most of whom attended these private schools, think they can do as they please without reprimand.

Nice that you were happy to sacrifice yourself so that these arseholes could be molded into nice chaps.
Would you feel the same if it happened to your daughter?

4 degrees why are you working for £20k as a librarian?

Go into industry. You are wasted in the role you are doing. You are not enjoying it.

Please NAME the school.

My two children have been privately educated at 4 schools in Surrey. None of that behaviour or anything even near is tolerated.

People keep banging on about thousands and thousands of pounds in donations to turn a blind eye. It is BS. I know twin boys that have been expelled and they are what is known as 3rd gen- ie their father and grandfathers went to that school, there is a bench with their double barrelled name on it in founder's court etc, because they flipped a fizzy drink at a cleaner.

My son's current school has detention on Saturday mornings and the offences range from not wearing regulation socks to not doing homework. Anything more than that is a gating, then suspension. You don't mess around.

Not remotely relevant, but what on earth is the point of doing FOUR degrees?
Even if it ultimately led to a fabulous career, which in this case it clearly hasn't...
Strange.

Try another school. Does not have to be private. I work in a bog standard academy in what is classed as a deprived area. Not all of our students are perfect but I have never been or felt threatened and certainly never assaulted. If anything like that did happen I feel confident SLT would be supportive and deal with it.

You should absolutely not have to be in contact with students who have physically assaulted you..I am surprised they are still in school. You could also take this incidents to the police.

I wouldn't personally feel threatened by a water pistol but the boy was rude and the school should address that behaviour.

I’m really sorry you had to experience this and that you are feeling furious about the situation. It doesn’t sound like the school have supported you or that pupil properly.

I’m not SLT atm but having qualifications to that level, it’s incredibly hard to permanently exclude students. The school is ultimately responsible for providing every child they accept an education and if they cannot meet need, they should look to support the young person to a placement that’s more suitable. The problem is is that there’s no where for them to go because specialist provision and PRUs are full. The LA do not like permanent expulsions which puts heads under pressure to potentially keep students they do not have the resources for. It’s an awful situation all round.

The in-school stuff: speak to your SLT and explain exactly what you would like done. Physical violence is never ok and there should be some accountability on the student’s behalf to make amends and deal with an appropriate consequence. Are you in an education union?

The out of school stuff: If they are 10+ years old, report to the police.

Then think carefully about whether you want to stay in your job. Not every school is like this!

Good luck.

It's not nice or okay and shouldn't go without consequence. But it's not proportionate to being excluded. So yes I would feel the same.

Not strange at all. Degrees are not all done with careers in mind.

Not on my life, I'm not risking my job for someone on MN.

However, their mother who was also privately educated calls this 'the normal boarding school pranks' as she was also privately educated as was her husband - who also supports this narrative. She always says that her son will need to explain as I was state educated and not 'familiar with how things are at boarding schools'.

Makes me wonder how much you actually know is going on at your children's schools.

I am privately educated. I went to Rodean. As was my husband- Winchester. I am very hands on with my children. Thank you.

Pranks such as midnight feasts and hiding tuck- yes. Boy's hiding gym kit -That happens. Depending on severity- house gating etc

Threatening a teacher with a water gun, bed flipping etc. Not going to happen without sanction. You get detention for non regulation socks. Please!

Yes of course you won't name the school, but happy to bash 'private schools' based on hearsay. Right. I believe you.

When you actually have first hand experience with private schools, let's have an informed discussion.

I am currently halfway through my second degree. Yes some people have found it strange I am doing another. However this one is just something I am interested in. Also I love learning new things and have done short courses but found them not to exercise my brain as much as a degree. I like the challenge.

TBF, state schools can’t just enforce a term of a contract entered into by paying parent(s) by excluding the badly behaved child.

But the notion that private schools suffer the same violence and misconduct as state schools is laughable anyway.

The problem is that state schools adopt or are subject to absurd ‘keep them in at all costs’ policies. There should be many more exclusions. I genuinely don’t give a fuck about the 5% of violent, aggressive and threatening children. The other 95% and the staff have rights too and they win out.

It's not about a water pistol, anyone should be able to walk down the street undisturned and not bothered.
Dont know what your job is, if you had a client who scream abuse at you as you walk down the street because they didnt like a job you did for them, would you also just decide to roll over and quit, or would you want to be protercted against abuse? But hey, it's just words, right?

Mainly just because I wanted to be educated.

I have applied relentlessly to higher paid jobs, I attended interviews for jobs paying 40-50k but all I ever hear is things like 'this job is just...too big for you' and other meaningless condescension, but offers for jobs paying 20k flow. I deduced that I'm probably just too young and not established enough in my career to be considered seriously for these roles.

State schools. Not public schools. Those are private schools.