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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think he should be expelled for threatening me outside school?

199 replies

fedupteacher9 · 25/10/2023 21:38

Do I just need to suck it up ?

I am being routinely assaulted and threatened by students in my new job which I have been at for one term.

I am currently in a support role (school librarian) after leaving teaching, thinking the pay cut would be worth less mental anguish of abuse from students.

I have had 2 books thrown at my head by 2 different students. One was expelled and then unexpelled because the school feared being fined by the LA for incorrect expulsion. When he was unexpelled, I was aghast that he felt comfortable coming back into my library and sitting on his phone when he was meant to be in his lesson. Multiple times I had to get on call to remove him. SLT have obviously not taken this seriously.

The second boy has yet to face consequences. Headmaster told me his punishment would be a year ban from the library: for assaulting me?! Am I crazy?

If I told you what happened today, you wouldn't believe me. On the street I live on, a student approaches me and my partner and points a watergun at me. 'I should shoot you for kicking me out the library'. My partner just said 'come on lads, behave' and we walked away. This is my dream job, I competed with 50 other candidates for it, and one term in and I am applying elsewhere, to private schools where this shit won't happen.

If you are wondering why this is happening, these boys are retaliating to being removed or banned from the library by me for poor behaviour, truculence, abuse of staff or insubordination. I am not raising my voice at any of these boys.

I'm fucking livid.

OP posts:
GreenVelvetCushions · 27/10/2023 07:44

LlynTegid · 25/10/2023 22:07

It took place outside school so in my view is a police matter.

You can't call the police because someone pointed a water pistol at you.

I think you need to leave op.

GreenVelvetCushions · 27/10/2023 07:45

fedupteacher9 · 25/10/2023 22:18

I don't know the content of that water pistol, it could have been bleach or something corrosive, I don't know that he was just referencing the water pistol or if it was a more serious threat, and considering I have been assaulted twice, I would say that my reaction is fairly tame, I don't want to be harassed and intimidated in the town I have lived in since I was born for no reason, I have a right not to live in fear from your feral children

Please just stop working in schools op.

StarlightLime · 27/10/2023 10:00

GreenVelvetCushions · 27/10/2023 07:45

Please just stop working in schools op.

Show quote history

Why are you intent on making op feel she needs to suck up this dickish behaviour? Just stop it.

Original poster
fedupteacher9 · 27/10/2023 10:24

SchoolLibrarianHere · 27/10/2023 06:26

Absolutely no way that my SLT would have tolerated that behaviour. Join the Secondary School Librarians group on Facebook (they only let verified school librarians join) - you'll find a mountain of support there. Some of these comments are unreal - absolutely no way that I went to university for 5 years to get books thrown at me... ridiculous. I think some of these PPs think we're dealing with small children... no, they are the size of fully grown men that wander the school in packs looking for trouble, and schools must be able to get them in line by the time they are out in the real world for society's sake. Poor parenting at its finest.

absolutely no way that I went to university for 5 years to get books thrown at me

YEP. 6 years. 4 degrees. Including one from Cambridge University. And now I'm on 20.5k being assaulted by feckless guttersnipes with vacant parents who have no stake in society and it's somehow, according to some MNetters, my job to perform the miracle of reforming males who are likely violent towards their own mothers, otherwise I don't belong in a school. I am a teacher not a social worker, I do not owe the school shit but to perform my contracted duties and educate children - without the treat of abuse. Delusion

OP posts:
Lokipokey1 · 27/10/2023 10:49

Anyone who thinks these little dicks are not really that bad volunteering to give me their work address so I can come and throw a couple of books at their head? If it’s so socially acceptable and the OP should not be bothered by it I’m sure you won’t mind?

Nanny0gg · 27/10/2023 11:11

witmum · 25/10/2023 22:05

I do not work in education and highly recommend you also don't work in education. I think you need to be more robust/resilient or work in a different sector.

You were threatened with a water pistol, even if you had we squirted I would not see this as a violent act.

Clearly you don't work in education.

He uses a water pistol and gets away with it.

What does he use next?

Youth behaviour is running out of control because many, many HTs won't deal with it

Nanny0gg · 27/10/2023 11:12

GreenVelvetCushions · 27/10/2023 07:45

Please just stop working in schools op.

Show quote history

If everyone took that attitude there'd be no-one left

Did you know there's a crisis in recruitment. I wonder why?

Nanny0gg · 27/10/2023 11:13

KickHimInTheCrotch · 26/10/2023 03:20

If I was assaulted by a teenage boy in my place of work I'd call the police. I wouldn't expect my boss to deal with it. Not sure why this is different?

Because would the teenage boy be someone you have responsibility for?

Nanny0gg · 27/10/2023 11:15

blackoverbillsmothers · 26/10/2023 06:22

CushionLover

To me these are WAY OFF expelling level offences. It's rubbish you have to put up with it, don't get me wrong.

But a kid's education and life chances shouldn't be jeopardised for a water gun and getting a book thrown at you, which are both not exactly high stakes issues.

I can’t believe what I’m reading!

This is the problem. No boundaries and no consequences. In fact no discipline. No wonder we have problems in wider society when this behaviour is tolerated from school children.

@CushionLover Have the corner of the book hit you in the eye and see how you feel then!

Any level of violence towards a member of staff (or pupil) is totally unacceptable

TankFlyBoss · 27/10/2023 11:16

Of course the school can permanently exclude for something outside of school if that is covered in their behaviour policy and the exclusion is otherwise lawful and proportionate.

Nanny0gg · 27/10/2023 11:18

GreenVelvetCushions · 27/10/2023 07:45

Please just stop working in schools op.

Show quote history

Why?

Why can't the behaviour be dealt with?

Some schools manage to do it

Nanny0gg · 27/10/2023 11:19

WandaWonder · 26/10/2023 07:01

There is a difference to being a bit rude and abuse, if abuse the police should be called but OP your posts are coming across weirdly

If this is all real and there is abuse going call the police

What do you call having a missile thrown at you?

Nanny0gg · 27/10/2023 11:22

MillieVonPinkle · 25/10/2023 22:39

Only on Mumsnet could it be considered reasonable to have books thrown at you and to be threatened outside of your workplace

And only on MN would you find an op being urged to contact the police over a teenager threatening to squirt water on her.

Someone said threatened with murder, I mean fgs 😂 It was a water pistol. I would love to see the look on the police officers face that took that report.

My neighbours 6 year old was riding a sit on tractor earlier and drove towards me shouting gleefully that he was going to run me over. He only just missed me. Maybe I should report him for dangerous driving or attempted murder.

She didn't know WHAT was in the water pistol

And most Year 8s are taller than me. The kids in question here could be man-sized

You comfortable with that?

Nanny0gg · 27/10/2023 11:23

Good god!

I can see why my DGC come home after having had yet ^another* incident with them as the victim pretty much daily.

And it DOESN'T need to happen

Lavender14 · 27/10/2023 11:33

I mean, I work with very high threshold, high risk behaviour in young people. So would that have bothered me- probably not if I'm honest. I'd have laughed it off and tried to take it as an opportunity to have a joke and ease the tension with him.

But. That doesn't really matter, the point is that you felt unsafe about it and your feelings do matter. I do think you need to have a conversation with your management team about it, and highlight very directly that you feel unsupported and unsafe in your job and ask what their plans are to address that.

It may be that as much as you say this is your dream job, you're there to work with the pupils of that school, the good, the bad, the ugly. There are so many, many kids growing up in homes with violence and chaos and no boundaries and then we expect them to come into school and just know how to behave. And that's not realistic or fair. But it is reflective of the society we live in.

So maybe you do need to work in a different school because while what you're describing would attract me to a job, it's clearly putting you off so it's not maybe the dream job you were expecting. But you might find that elsewhere with a school that's a better fit either by prioritising pastoral care and staff wellbeing, or because the demographic they serve is different.

MyHornCanPierceTheSky · 27/10/2023 11:33

I can't remember if is this or another thread, but am sure there's a poster who thinks teachers should be grateful if a pupil targets or falsely accuses a them as they must be a trusted person in their life who they feel safe with...

LaurieStrode · 27/10/2023 11:35

User0ne · 25/10/2023 22:15

It's pretty clear that this isn't the job for you.

It's hard to tell whether it's a "school problem" (IE bad management) because your reaction to being threatened with a water pistol is so over the top.

Either way I think you'll be much happier elsewhere. I suggest you make the move before your partner opens themselves to accusations of assaulting a child for threatening to shoot you with a water pistol.

You are downplaying a very concerning incident.

LaurieStrode · 27/10/2023 11:37

CushionLover · 25/10/2023 22:26

To me these are WAY OFF expelling level offences. It's rubbish you have to put up with it, don't get me wrong.

But a kid's education and life chances shouldn't be jeopardised for a water gun and getting a book thrown at you, which are both not exactly high stakes issues.

@XelaM Let's not forget private schools are motivated by money - mine (okay 20 years ago) let back expelled pupils all the time, their parents made lovely donations to help sway that decision. I'm talking knives, drugs, fights, prostitutes on school trips. They all got let back in.

Maybe if penalties were more harsh, some of these fuckers would shape up. I don't really care about the "life chances" of thugs who assault staff and shirk lessons.

AgnesX · 27/10/2023 11:40

witmum · 25/10/2023 22:05

I do not work in education and highly recommend you also don't work in education. I think you need to be more robust/resilient or work in a different sector.

You were threatened with a water pistol, even if you had we squirted I would not see this as a violent act.

Jeez, what planet do you live on if you think that's acceptable behaviour towards a member of staff.

MintJulia · 27/10/2023 11:42

@Foxesandsquirrels I've no idea what private school you have experience of but at my ds' school, a pupil threatening a teacher would be suspended within the hour, their parents called in and a very clear explanation of what would happen (expulsion) if something similar ever occurred again.

LaurieStrode · 27/10/2023 11:45

Hankunamatata · 25/10/2023 23:18

Did the books hit you? Cause damage? Were you off work? Hospitalised?

Does pupil have sen?

What caused the situation where the child threw the book?

Some kids have crappy home lives, some just hate school and act out.

The water pistol thing is something you report to the school not the police as another bit of evidence of behavioural problems.

Lots schools use library for sen kids who arnt coping in class and some can be violent.

My own sen dc in mainstream has turned over a chair and thrown books mid meltdown (couldnt do a maths problem). Luckily the Liberian realised it was a meltdown, gave him space and then a drink of juice (she keeps stashes of cartons and sweets on her drawer). He apologised and gave her a hug.

High school staff have to put up with a lot but good ones are worth their weight in gold

Librarians shouldn't have to deal with violence and meltdowns.

I'd rather be safe than be worth my weight in gold, thank you.

Myfabby · 27/10/2023 11:49

MintJulia · 27/10/2023 11:42

@Foxesandsquirrels I've no idea what private school you have experience of but at my ds' school, a pupil threatening a teacher would be suspended within the hour, their parents called in and a very clear explanation of what would happen (expulsion) if something similar ever occurred again.

expelled at my son's school. zero tolerance.

MyHornCanPierceTheSky · 27/10/2023 11:52

@LaurieStrode according to some you thinking about your own safety is dreadful and PROOF you shouldn't be a teacher...😆 and the post you quoted 🤯 hugs and treats for a child who has thrown furniture around?

Parker231 · 27/10/2023 11:54

Jellybean23 · 25/10/2023 22:04

I would report it to the police. It's assault.

Agree and have a meeting with the Head to let them know you are involving the police. Follow up with an email to confirm your meeting and copy it to the Governors.

Underhisi · 27/10/2023 11:57

I would report the water pistol incident to the police. It's the words that went with it that are the problem.

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