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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think he should be expelled for threatening me outside school?

199 replies

fedupteacher9 · 25/10/2023 21:38

Do I just need to suck it up ?

I am being routinely assaulted and threatened by students in my new job which I have been at for one term.

I am currently in a support role (school librarian) after leaving teaching, thinking the pay cut would be worth less mental anguish of abuse from students.

I have had 2 books thrown at my head by 2 different students. One was expelled and then unexpelled because the school feared being fined by the LA for incorrect expulsion. When he was unexpelled, I was aghast that he felt comfortable coming back into my library and sitting on his phone when he was meant to be in his lesson. Multiple times I had to get on call to remove him. SLT have obviously not taken this seriously.

The second boy has yet to face consequences. Headmaster told me his punishment would be a year ban from the library: for assaulting me?! Am I crazy?

If I told you what happened today, you wouldn't believe me. On the street I live on, a student approaches me and my partner and points a watergun at me. 'I should shoot you for kicking me out the library'. My partner just said 'come on lads, behave' and we walked away. This is my dream job, I competed with 50 other candidates for it, and one term in and I am applying elsewhere, to private schools where this shit won't happen.

If you are wondering why this is happening, these boys are retaliating to being removed or banned from the library by me for poor behaviour, truculence, abuse of staff or insubordination. I am not raising my voice at any of these boys.

I'm fucking livid.

OP posts:
SeulementUneFois · 25/10/2023 23:04

As a PP said above.
Fuck the school, they're useless.

Go to the police. Re the threat, you know the kid's name, and you have a witness.

Push them, the kid's above the age of criminal responsibility. They have to take it seriously, they can't fob you off like the school.

doodleZ1 · 25/10/2023 23:04

Exactly no local authority wants one of their schools to be on the evening news for a strike about poor behaviour. A united front and the authority will take action quickly

Blondebutnotlegally · 25/10/2023 23:04

MillieVonPinkle · 25/10/2023 22:39

Only on Mumsnet could it be considered reasonable to have books thrown at you and to be threatened outside of your workplace

And only on MN would you find an op being urged to contact the police over a teenager threatening to squirt water on her.

Someone said threatened with murder, I mean fgs 😂 It was a water pistol. I would love to see the look on the police officers face that took that report.

My neighbours 6 year old was riding a sit on tractor earlier and drove towards me shouting gleefully that he was going to run me over. He only just missed me. Maybe I should report him for dangerous driving or attempted murder.

I agree with this. What happened in the street was a bit intimidating. Not nice by any stretch, but ultimately he threatened to squirt you with some water. To the PPs screaming possible acid attack and murder, how the fuck do you all function day to day? 😅 He COULD have done lots of things, he COULD have implied lots of things, but what he said and did points to suggesting he was going to wet your coat a bit...

Re the assaults though, that's awful. No one deserves to go to their jobs and leave terrified. I hate unsupportive employers. Let's not dress the pistol incident to be more than it was though.

BlueEyedPeanut · 25/10/2023 23:04

It doesn't matter that it was a water pistol - It could have had anything in it. Bleach, piss, fuel etc. I'm not one to say report to the police over every little thing, but this is clearly a young thug who thinks he's untouchable. That makes him dangerous. You should report his assault and intimidation to the police.

WearyAuldWumman · 25/10/2023 23:04

Don't feed the trolls, OP. There's no accounting for a lack of empathy and common sense.

Foxesandsquirrels · 25/10/2023 23:05

WearyAuldWumman · 25/10/2023 22:46

I'm glad to hear that such exclusions are still possible in England.

I don't want to give the name of my main LA, but permanent exclusions are no longer allowed at all (though it's possible to organise a whole-school transfer with parental agreement) and temporary exclusions are now only a few days.

The emphasis is on inclusion and 'restorative justice'. Some schools no longer allow punishment exercises.

Our off-campus provision has been cut back and we were told that only 'pupils known to the police' would be considered for a place.

Our LA actually tried to stop exam leave for seniors because the council was concerned that it gave rise to more anti-social behaviour in town centres and so on.

I now only do an occasional bit of supply. When I was still in post, a female pupil alerted me to the fact that a teenage boy had texted all his pals a message about what he wanted to do to me. (A violent threat of a sexual nature - torture rather than rape.)

I did contact the police. I didn't expect him to be charged, but hoped that someone might be prepared to have a word with him. "Oh, but does a boy of that age really understand what that means?"

To be fair, our Depute/line manager at least made sure that the boy was kept away from me.

I'm genuinely pleased that you still have basic standards in your part of the world.

I had a male colleague who was assaulted. The boy (bigger than the teacher) tried to claim that he was the victim. The parents insisted that there be an investigation. The police found that the teacher had no case to answer - he'd only stretched out a hand to stop the second punch connecting.

Nevertheless, the parents contacted the Education Department. My colleague was suspended, pending an investigation. He was eventually cleared, but at his hearing an Ed Officer told him that he "should have run away".

My colleague returned to work for the rest of the year and then quit teaching.

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I'm so sorry. Scotland sounds terrifying at the moment.

WearyAuldWumman · 25/10/2023 23:07

Foxesandsquirrels · 25/10/2023 23:05

I'm so sorry. Scotland sounds terrifying at the moment.

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There are many good schools and most pupils are lovely. The problem is that too many Yes-men (and women) have risen through the ranks to the top.

MichelleScarn · 25/10/2023 23:08

Foxesandsquirrels · 25/10/2023 22:45

WHAT. ONE?! In the whole country?! Wtaf. You couldn't pay me a million to teach in a school like that.

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In Scotland teachers are more likely to be chastised and asked 'what did you do to make them do that!'

FieldInWhichFucksAreGrownIsBarren · 25/10/2023 23:08

I work within education in a role dealing with behaviour and no way would I be tolerating this. If you have been threatened outside of school then report it to the police.

CagneyAndLazy · 25/10/2023 23:08

This reply has been deleted

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doodleZ1 · 25/10/2023 23:09

OP if your school doesnt support you do you really want to work there anyway either now or after probation? This kind of behaviour makes people not want to go to work in the morning. Also if it was affecting a member of the SMT something tells me the situation would be dealt with. If you get a staff meeting of Union members and they are behind you as they should be, you will not be on your own.

WearyAuldWumman · 25/10/2023 23:10

MichelleScarn · 25/10/2023 23:08

In Scotland teachers are more likely to be chastised and asked 'what did you do to make them do that!'

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Yup.

"Did you take into account that that was a trauma response? What was he trying to communicate to you?"

MillieVonPinkle · 25/10/2023 23:14

Righto @CagneyAndLazy 😂

If you do report to the police op, please do let us know how that goes. I'm sure they'll be right around to make an arrest and bag and tag the weapon.

Threatened with dampness sounds like just the sort of crime police should be focusing on right now.

Foxesandsquirrels · 25/10/2023 23:14

WearyAuldWumman · 25/10/2023 23:07

There are many good schools and most pupils are lovely. The problem is that too many Yes-men (and women) have risen through the ranks to the top.

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I work in education still, albeit not full time. On the whole I do agree with you but a lot of our behaviour strategy does rely on the 'ultimate' threat that you will be kicked out and no one really rates you once you're in the PRU. I cannot imagine not having this option, for the safety of everyone. It also serves as a reminder to kids that there are long term effects to their behaviour. Teens aren't great at knowing this. Permanent exclusion is a very concrete and clear boundary they need. It's very difficult to permanently exclude, it's not an easy route and requires lots of evidence so it's not like it's being handed out like sweets with no foresight.
It is always the minority that ruin it for everyone and I have no doubt Scotland has plenty of lovely pupils and schools, however, not being able to permanently exclude shows a complete lack of respect for safeguarding amongst other things. It also sends the wrong message to children who will ultimately end up in a workplace where they'll be 'kicked' out for insubordination.

Original poster
fedupteacher9 · 25/10/2023 23:14

WearyAuldWumman · 25/10/2023 23:10

Yup.

"Did you take into account that that was a trauma response? What was he trying to communicate to you?"

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So Scottish teachers are being gaslit for exercising professional discipline?

Being traumatised doesn't give them the right to traumatise others. People are not exonerated legally on this basis so why is this logic applied in schools?

OP posts:
Foxesandsquirrels · 25/10/2023 23:14

WearyAuldWumman · 25/10/2023 23:10

Yup.

"Did you take into account that that was a trauma response? What was he trying to communicate to you?"

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I would honestly reply: do I look like a fuckjng CAMHS clinician?

DivingForLove · 25/10/2023 23:15

@doodleZ1 I’ve lost count of the number of times I have to point out on Mumsnet that you CANNOT expect a Union to support you if you join AFTER an event has happened! It’s like an insurance policy - you don’t crash your car and then phone up and get yourself insured 🤯.

If you’re daft enough to work in a school without being a union member then tough - you don’t get the protection that I’ve been paying for over the last 20 yrs for nothing 🙄.

Original poster
fedupteacher9 · 25/10/2023 23:16

DivingForLove · 25/10/2023 23:15

@doodleZ1 I’ve lost count of the number of times I have to point out on Mumsnet that you CANNOT expect a Union to support you if you join AFTER an event has happened! It’s like an insurance policy - you don’t crash your car and then phone up and get yourself insured 🤯.

If you’re daft enough to work in a school without being a union member then tough - you don’t get the protection that I’ve been paying for over the last 20 yrs for nothing 🙄.

Thankfully I am already in a union

OP posts:
Hankunamatata · 25/10/2023 23:18

Did the books hit you? Cause damage? Were you off work? Hospitalised?

Does pupil have sen?

What caused the situation where the child threw the book?

Some kids have crappy home lives, some just hate school and act out.

The water pistol thing is something you report to the school not the police as another bit of evidence of behavioural problems.

Lots schools use library for sen kids who arnt coping in class and some can be violent.

My own sen dc in mainstream has turned over a chair and thrown books mid meltdown (couldnt do a maths problem). Luckily the Liberian realised it was a meltdown, gave him space and then a drink of juice (she keeps stashes of cartons and sweets on her drawer). He apologised and gave her a hug.

High school staff have to put up with a lot but good ones are worth their weight in gold

Ella31 · 25/10/2023 23:20

It's not about the water gun, it's what he said. To approach a staff member and say he should shoot them...... If someone did this in a normal workplace or outside, there would a hr meeting. Why its acceptable for a student to do this, I don't understand.

Original poster
fedupteacher9 · 25/10/2023 23:20

Hankunamatata · 25/10/2023 23:18

Did the books hit you? Cause damage? Were you off work? Hospitalised?

Does pupil have sen?

What caused the situation where the child threw the book?

Some kids have crappy home lives, some just hate school and act out.

The water pistol thing is something you report to the school not the police as another bit of evidence of behavioural problems.

Lots schools use library for sen kids who arnt coping in class and some can be violent.

My own sen dc in mainstream has turned over a chair and thrown books mid meltdown (couldnt do a maths problem). Luckily the Liberian realised it was a meltdown, gave him space and then a drink of juice (she keeps stashes of cartons and sweets on her drawer). He apologised and gave her a hug.

High school staff have to put up with a lot but good ones are worth their weight in gold

So I should be assaulted and have a crappy home life because a kid has SEN/ a crappy home life?

OP posts:
doodleZ1 · 25/10/2023 23:21

I think we all know you cant join a Union after an event. However she can join a Union NOW and deal with any issues from then on. Stop being so patronising

DivingForLove · 25/10/2023 23:21

@fedupteacher9 good, I wish you all the best. I’m truly horrified at the minimising of behaviour on this thread. And don’t get me started on the “what was he trying to communicate with his behaviour” brigade. It’s not ok and it’s the reason the teaching profession is haemorrhaging staff.

I hope you get some support and respite.

Raincloudsonasunnyday · 25/10/2023 23:21

@CushionLover

But a kid's education and life chances shouldn't be jeopardised for a water gun and getting a book thrown at you, which are both not exactly high stakes issues.

Are you for real?? Do parents actually think like this?

Youre saying a child’s education and “life chances” should be jeopardised for throwing a hard object at a person in a position of authority over them. That’s what you’re saying.

How about: a librarian who is seeking to educate children to improve their life chances shouldn’t have to do so under the threat of violence or physical assault…from the very people they’re trying to educate.

Or even: a child’s life chances and education might actually be improved by learning that you can’t fucking assault teachers / employers / civil servants and get away with it? Next time he tries this, it’ll end up in a young offender’s institute after he takes out someone’s eye.

Or how about this: boys should be sight that violence isn’t ever acceptable.

I CANNOT believe you actually think this way.

Original poster
fedupteacher9 · 25/10/2023 23:22

Raincloudsonasunnyday · 25/10/2023 23:21

@CushionLover

But a kid's education and life chances shouldn't be jeopardised for a water gun and getting a book thrown at you, which are both not exactly high stakes issues.

Are you for real?? Do parents actually think like this?

Youre saying a child’s education and “life chances” should be jeopardised for throwing a hard object at a person in a position of authority over them. That’s what you’re saying.

How about: a librarian who is seeking to educate children to improve their life chances shouldn’t have to do so under the threat of violence or physical assault…from the very people they’re trying to educate.

Or even: a child’s life chances and education might actually be improved by learning that you can’t fucking assault teachers / employers / civil servants and get away with it? Next time he tries this, it’ll end up in a young offender’s institute after he takes out someone’s eye.

Or how about this: boys should be sight that violence isn’t ever acceptable.

I CANNOT believe you actually think this way.

Thank you <3

OP posts: