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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think he should be expelled for threatening me outside school?

199 replies

fedupteacher9 · 25/10/2023 21:38

Do I just need to suck it up ?

I am being routinely assaulted and threatened by students in my new job which I have been at for one term.

I am currently in a support role (school librarian) after leaving teaching, thinking the pay cut would be worth less mental anguish of abuse from students.

I have had 2 books thrown at my head by 2 different students. One was expelled and then unexpelled because the school feared being fined by the LA for incorrect expulsion. When he was unexpelled, I was aghast that he felt comfortable coming back into my library and sitting on his phone when he was meant to be in his lesson. Multiple times I had to get on call to remove him. SLT have obviously not taken this seriously.

The second boy has yet to face consequences. Headmaster told me his punishment would be a year ban from the library: for assaulting me?! Am I crazy?

If I told you what happened today, you wouldn't believe me. On the street I live on, a student approaches me and my partner and points a watergun at me. 'I should shoot you for kicking me out the library'. My partner just said 'come on lads, behave' and we walked away. This is my dream job, I competed with 50 other candidates for it, and one term in and I am applying elsewhere, to private schools where this shit won't happen.

If you are wondering why this is happening, these boys are retaliating to being removed or banned from the library by me for poor behaviour, truculence, abuse of staff or insubordination. I am not raising my voice at any of these boys.

I'm fucking livid.

OP posts:
MichelleScarn · 26/10/2023 07:14

Krystall · 26/10/2023 06:42

You seem to have missed my point.

Show quote history

What is your 'point' what's the misbehaving the pupils at your school do?
At my school 'misbehaving' was wetting papertowels and trying to stick them in a ball to the ceiling.
Your 'leave the sector' if you don't like the verbal/physical abuse is scary!

winewolfhowls · 26/10/2023 07:19

SisterMichaelsHabit · 25/10/2023 23:38

Nah this is your behaviour management style that's causing the problem. You're being too confrontational (which is nothing to do with raising your voice etc) and that's not the right style for this school. You need to work on this or stop trying to manage behaviour as if you were still a teacher (you're not, and won't be responded to by the pupils in the same way).

Also if you understood behaviour, behaviour management or children with behavioural problems at all you wouldn't be pushing for a child to be expelled, you'd be trying to work with them to build inroads and help them develop life skills. You're taking children's behaviour personally which means you don't have the professional boundaries or resilience for this role at this school with these kids. This type of school is just not compatible with your temperament and level of skills. That's fine, but you should probably look for a school where you will have the type of pupil you can manage.

(waits for another page of emojis as OP is convinced she's right).

This is a joke right....?

MichelleScarn · 26/10/2023 07:22

winewolfhowls · 26/10/2023 07:19

This is a joke right....?

Show quote history

Joke/troll/teacher who is 'down with the kids' and throws colleagues under the bus/entitled parent ?
Or all of the above!

VisaWoes · 26/10/2023 07:29

Well if the head isn’t supporting you I’d stop putting yourself in the firing line? Stop kicking people out the library, stop ringing up to get them removed, let them run riot and just ignore them. Then they won’t have any issue with you. If SLT complain tell them why.

Conkersinautumn · 26/10/2023 07:30

It's one if those with a bit of a saviour complex.

Wouldyouguess · 26/10/2023 07:49

Report to the police, Ofsted and find a new job, with SLT this shit nothing will ever change over there.

Wouldyouguess · 26/10/2023 07:52

WearyAuldWumman · 25/10/2023 21:49

I'm sorry you're going through this.

I was a PTC/Faculty Head/middle manager in a Scottish secondary school. No school is going to exclude a pupil for something that happens outside school. You could report the little darling to the local police*, but there's no guarantee that they'll act. (Been there. Got the t-shirt.)

On the other hand, it works both ways. I'll not divert your thread by telling the story at this point, but my husband once gave a bold boy a piece of his mind. My HT ruled that there were no consequences to me because it happened outside school hours.

I'm sorry that you're in this position, OP. The fact that the kids feel comfortable using the library as a place to skive lessons is the SLT's failure.

*There are some real weapons out there, made to look like toy guns.

It is possible to expell students for stuff they did outside school (I saw two cases during my career). It could go under bringing school's reputation into disrespute among other things on top of it being assault etc. Problem is it is extremely difficult to expell anyone because of anything and there are multiple stages you need to go through and most schools cant be bothered and dont want it in their paperwork.

Wouldyouguess · 26/10/2023 07:56

winewolfhowls · 26/10/2023 07:19

This is a joke right....?

Show quote history

Sadly I suspect no, I worked with people like that.
Funnily, when a kid was rude to them, that was the only time any sort of sanctions were applied; the same being done to a regular teacher resulted in a similar talk.

ButtonSister · 26/10/2023 08:03

WearyAuldWumman · 25/10/2023 22:57

Exclusion is normally the official term nowadays, and can refer to temporary or permanent removal from school. I still hear 'expulsion' being referred to outside official circles.

That's what I thought. I'm surprised at the number of teaching professionals on here still using the old term.

Original poster
fedupteacher9 · 26/10/2023 08:14

VisaWoes · 26/10/2023 07:29

Well if the head isn’t supporting you I’d stop putting yourself in the firing line? Stop kicking people out the library, stop ringing up to get them removed, let them run riot and just ignore them. Then they won’t have any issue with you. If SLT complain tell them why.

Honest to god, this seems like the rational thing to do, i am genuinely considering it. Protect me or I won't protect your library. I am considering outsourcing all behavior management to on call tbh.

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 26/10/2023 08:25

ButtonSister · 26/10/2023 08:03

That's what I thought. I'm surprised at the number of teaching professionals on here still using the old term.

Show quote history

It could be because the DfE keeps changing the terminology. It was suspension and exclusion , then fixed term and permanent exclusion for a couple of years, then it's back to suspension and permanent exclusion.

Far easier when speaking with people who don't necessarily know the current term to use expelled and suspended.

LAs really don't like you doing it, though - whatever it is called.

cansu · 26/10/2023 08:35

Tbh our librarian does not get involved much with discipline. If there's an issue she calls on call and they remove the kid. I would agree that you should step back.

LakieLady · 26/10/2023 08:49

WearyAuldWumman · 25/10/2023 23:10

Yup.

"Did you take into account that that was a trauma response? What was he trying to communicate to you?"

Show quote history

Bloody hell, how the fuck is someone who perceives a possible threat supposed to focus sufficiently to consider whether they might be having a "trauma response"?

I take my hat off to all of you working in education, the amount of bollocks you have to put up with is ludicrous. I work with clients with MH issues, and it's a haven of sanity compared to what goes on in some schools.

Pottedpalm · 26/10/2023 08:49

A teacher friend of mine was the target of a group of teenagers. It began with them ringing her house phone at all hours, multiple times day and night. ( going back a while ). Then she would come home from school and find deliveries of sand/gravel on the drive. A brick was thrown through their floor length lounge window with her children in the room. Tables were booked in her name ( often for large groups) at local restaurants… it went on and on. Eventually the culprits were found as she recognised one boy running away from her house.
It transpired that she had reprimanded one of the boys in the corridor at school and he didn’t like it.
School said she had to carry on teaching those involved and took no action as it all occurred outside school.

LividTwunt · 26/10/2023 08:54

I’ve only read the first page, but the number of posters claiming this isn’t a big deal (and suggesting that OP should be totally chill with books being thrown at her head by teenagers) is utterly fucking outrageous and these attitudes (rubbing off on said untouchable teenagers) are contributing to the absolute crisis of staffing in schools.

rainbowstardrops · 26/10/2023 09:33

Some of the batshit comments on here are bloody unbelievable and infuriating!

I would go to your head teacher/SLT and document everything with them. Mind you, they sound utterly shite, just like mine was and hence the reason I left education.

I worked with primary aged children but some of the poor behaviour was staggering! Did we get any support from SLT? Did we fuck.

If SLT/headteacher don't support you, you could put in a formal complaint to the governors (you'd have to check your particularly school's policy).
Having said that, I'd be telling them where to shove their bloody job! (Oh hang on, I did!)

Original poster
fedupteacher9 · 26/10/2023 10:23

Pottedpalm · 26/10/2023 08:49

A teacher friend of mine was the target of a group of teenagers. It began with them ringing her house phone at all hours, multiple times day and night. ( going back a while ). Then she would come home from school and find deliveries of sand/gravel on the drive. A brick was thrown through their floor length lounge window with her children in the room. Tables were booked in her name ( often for large groups) at local restaurants… it went on and on. Eventually the culprits were found as she recognised one boy running away from her house.
It transpired that she had reprimanded one of the boys in the corridor at school and he didn’t like it.
School said she had to carry on teaching those involved and took no action as it all occurred outside school.

Yeahhhhh I am stepping back from disciplining students for my own safety.

It's the same for me. They simply can't believe that I dared to establish my own boundaries. Males are worthless

OP posts:
Original poster
fedupteacher9 · 26/10/2023 10:34

UPDATE:

I phoned the police and reported him, and went into school to speak to the business admin lady there and she told me that I have done is the right thing. I asked if my behaviour mgmt was the issue as some here suggested, and she responded that all the pupils who assaulted/threatened me have had extreme behaviour with all staff and it is not personal. I love children and have a lot of compassion for naughty children but I cannot tolerate assault and threats, that is too much for me.

The police should be having a chat with him shortly.

To those who have been kind, supportive and outraged on my behalf: thank you for helping me feel sane and calming me down.

To those few who gaslit me and called me a bad teacher, you are pitiful and your appalling parenting is not my problem. You will never convince me to excuse abuse and assault because of domestic hardship, I had a fucking Dickensian upbringing and I don't disrespect or assault others. You operate on a level of delusion that I cannot engage with, so save your rotten breath.

Suggesting that I attempt to built inroads with males who are beating me: should I marry my rapist while I'm at it?! I can only laugh at your internalised misogyny.

I don't care if I lose my job for getting the police involved, nothing is worth my safety.

OP posts:
Motnight · 26/10/2023 10:56

Well done Op.

DonnaBanana · 26/10/2023 11:01

Well done OP I hope it gets better for you soon.

But a kid's education and life chances shouldn't be jeopardised for a water gun and getting a book thrown at you

The kid is doing the jeopardising, so yes.

ElevenSeven · 26/10/2023 11:02

Excellent, OP.

winewolfhowls · 26/10/2023 12:41

Brilliant update. In all the good schools I've ever been in, ALL staff are allowed and more importantly expected to discipline students to create a safe environment. In those schools you would get the same punishment for being rude to the head as one of the cleaning staff. Sadly in many schools badly behaved students miraculously disappear once they have sworn at senior team, which is mighty strange since they have all had a long history of abusing other staff.
You may well find the students generally are better behaved now as word will get out that you are willing to go to the police.

Hibiscrubbed · 26/10/2023 14:44

User0ne · 25/10/2023 22:15

It's pretty clear that this isn't the job for you.

It's hard to tell whether it's a "school problem" (IE bad management) because your reaction to being threatened with a water pistol is so over the top.

Either way I think you'll be much happier elsewhere. I suggest you make the move before your partner opens themselves to accusations of assaulting a child for threatening to shoot you with a water pistol.

I worked with a victim who was shot with acid from a water pistol.

There’s no ‘overreacting’ when it comes to male on female violence, whatever age of the perpetrator. These young men are completely fearless and feel justified in frightening or attacking women.

You need to wise up.

CoffeeCantata · 26/10/2023 15:56

Education will never improve for many children until it's easier to get rid of trouble-makers - of which this boy is a seriously nasty one.

No wonder both students and parents feel unassailable these days - we need to get back to a situation where they both have a healthy fear of expulsion.

But it might damage their mental health - and we can't have that! Teachers'/support staff's MH doesn't matter, of course.

SchoolLibrarianHere · 27/10/2023 06:26

Absolutely no way that my SLT would have tolerated that behaviour. Join the Secondary School Librarians group on Facebook (they only let verified school librarians join) - you'll find a mountain of support there. Some of these comments are unreal - absolutely no way that I went to university for 5 years to get books thrown at me... ridiculous. I think some of these PPs think we're dealing with small children... no, they are the size of fully grown men that wander the school in packs looking for trouble, and schools must be able to get them in line by the time they are out in the real world for society's sake. Poor parenting at its finest.