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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

parents living the high life

413 replies

nearlyemptynes · 25/10/2023 12:15

Now I know we make our choices in life and we live with them. I have 3 children and have supported the eldest through uni and would do the same for the other two if that's what they want. I see this as our responsibility as parents. I have friends who have not supported their kids, haven't encouraged open days etc then when they kids don't go they have wonderful foreign holidays etc after saying they couldn't afford to send their kids to uni. AIBU to think they have their priorities wrong?

OP posts:
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Blinkityblonk · 25/10/2023 14:33

Education is accessible, to those with wealthier parents who will pay the top up and those who are poorer who get the state top up loan.

Those who have wealthier parents who either don't pay or don't realise they have to pay are disadvantaged.

You don't have to be 'wealthy' to pay by the way, I earn less than 50k for my whole household, as a lone parent, and still have to pay the top-up. That's less than two people on 25k each (as they get two tax-free allowances in their household, I only get one, annoying).

LemonLight · 25/10/2023 14:33

@Blinkityblonk okay, I officially have no idea how this works!

LemonLight · 25/10/2023 14:36

@Blinkityblonk when you say you 'have' to pay, are you penalised if you don't? Or is it just advisory that you do? It's so different since I went to university but thank you for explaining.

DinosaurKnickers · 25/10/2023 14:36

@Antst my husband left school at 16 with no further education. He is much more “successful” in the traditional sense than I am with my degree. If I could go back now I wouldn’t even bother with a degree, total waste of time, effort and money. Don’t know that I’ll ever even earn over the threshold to pay it off.

You’re projecting.

Treesinmygarden · 25/10/2023 14:38

Antst · 25/10/2023 14:20

Oh, come on. It wasn't the norm and you know it. It's still completely normal in the UK for older people to lecture kids not to get an education.

Get off your hobby horse. It was the norm in my circles. None of my parents, aunts, uncles, parents of my friends had had a university education. The only one in my near family who did was my granny's brother. He was an ordained minister and uni lecturer. He was one of 2 illegitimate children born to my great-grandmother, who was in service to a wealthy family, and reared in very ordinary circumstances by my great-great grandparents. Hardly an auspicious beginning.

I went to a grammar school and the majority of my year went to uni. Same with my siblings.

I literally don't know who the hell lectures kids not to further their education.

You are totally out of touch!

samupnorth · 25/10/2023 14:40

CalistoNoSolo · 25/10/2023 12:19

I agree op, I can't imagine not giving my dd every possible opportunity. Its not being a martyr, its being a decent parent.

So parents of children who do not attend uni are not decent parents ? Not encouraging DC to get into 40k of debt for an average job could be seen as decent parenting ..

Treesinmygarden · 25/10/2023 14:42

samupnorth · 25/10/2023 14:40

So parents of children who do not attend uni are not decent parents ? Not encouraging DC to get into 40k of debt for an average job could be seen as decent parenting ..

I don't know where you got that from.

Parents who actively discourage their children's aspirations to go to uni because they don't want the expense, are not decent parents.

There are alternatives to uni.

If they end up in an average job they may never pay back the student finance.

samupnorth · 25/10/2023 14:44

Treesinmygarden · 25/10/2023 14:42

I don't know where you got that from.

Parents who actively discourage their children's aspirations to go to uni because they don't want the expense, are not decent parents.

There are alternatives to uni.

If they end up in an average job they may never pay back the student finance.

So you’re happy for the tax payer to pay for your DC uni experience ? If they never earn enough to pay back the loan , they didn’t need to go to uni. Not everyone has to go to uni to be successful , you do realise that ? You sound incredibly narrow minded

tattygrl · 25/10/2023 14:44

One, or even a few, good holidays cost a fraction of what university costs!

Also, you know nothing about these families and their backgrounds and what goes on in their private lives. You only know what they've chosen to share.

Stop judging. You're getting yourself wound up about the life and financial choices of families you don't even properly know.

lifeturnsonadime · 25/10/2023 14:44

In my experience more people are advising their kids to proceed with caution when it comes to universities now.

People do not have infinite sums of money to gift their children and the cost of everything has increased.

If people are topping up university expenses then this is money they are not then able to set aside for contributions to the mortgage, for example.

So many parents are questioning whether university is good value for money and whether it actually will assist with employability in the future and that, in my opinion, is a good thing.

So I do think that there is a shift in mindset from the position that everyone values a university education that was in place a few years ago.

Amongst our friends people are looking at apprenticeships as alternatives. This is probably because we have other friends with adult children who have masters degrees who 2 years later are working shifts at the local co-op.

Turfwars · 25/10/2023 14:45

I'm with you OP.

I see it as my job having chosen to be a mother to get my DS to the other side of whatever third level qualification or trade certification he wants and if that costs me money then that's what I signed up for when I binned my pill.

Having said that, DS knows that he will need to do something. The option of arsing around the house gaming while drawing the dole will not be tolerated under my roof, he will either study, train or work full time.

Miyagi99 · 25/10/2023 14:46

Children can apply to Uni, get loans and work. A lot of children (and they’re 28 so adults) don’t or can’t rely on their parents to pay for Uni. In didn’t and neither did my daughter.

SecondUsername4me · 25/10/2023 14:46

Blinkityblonk · 25/10/2023 14:30

@LemonLight when you enter your income to be assessed, there is a calculator which explains how much you have to top up per month. It's not a random amount, it's to equalise those funded by parental top up and those funded by state top up. It's exactly spelt out.

You only have to top up if your child is living away at uni and incurring living costs outside the home.

If they live at home they'll get £3,698pa (min) maintenance loan to go towards their living costs and then a loan for the actual fees (in full).

So if a parent cannot / will not top up, then the child either attends a uni they can travel to from home daily or delays uni, or pays their own top up from working etc.

Fees now are about 9k pa, so before anything else, you graduate with 27k debt.

Traysho · 25/10/2023 14:47

I wouldn’t pay for the course fees as they might never need to pay them back. I would help with living costs if I could but I certainly wouldn’t without holidays etc for that. I came from a look after yourself once 18 background.

MargotBamborough · 25/10/2023 14:47

samupnorth · 25/10/2023 14:44

So you’re happy for the tax payer to pay for your DC uni experience ? If they never earn enough to pay back the loan , they didn’t need to go to uni. Not everyone has to go to uni to be successful , you do realise that ? You sound incredibly narrow minded

I'm not sure whether you're aware, but it is currently estimated that at least 75% of people who take out student loans will never pay them off.

People in professions such as teaching and nursing, which require degrees, will never earn enough to pay back the loan.

SecondUsername4me · 25/10/2023 14:49

If they never earn enough to pay back the loan , they didn’t need to go to uni

Nursing requires a degree yet doesn't pay enough to repay loans in full.

Traysho · 25/10/2023 14:56

@MargotBamborough

i thought the threshold was about £28k? Nurses and Teachers will earn more than that at some point.

ilovesooty · 25/10/2023 14:58

Antst · 25/10/2023 14:01

So what? Conclusions that are based on observation (after observation after observation) are valid.

I wasn't talking to you or referencing your post.

Having seen your persistently ageist agenda I'm not interested in anything you have to say.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 25/10/2023 15:02

Sadly lots of kids end up at uni because of their parents ambitions, and also because of the absolute ton of misinformation about courses and careers. Also, the debt burden, even with parental support, is huge, especially for those who undertake long courses (eg medicine 5 years plus). And on top, the financial payback rules have just changed yet again, in favour of lenders.

Some young people undertake professional courses without degrees, and end up earning as much eg in marketing and Human Resources. In those instances, the right experience of work in the field are what counts as entry, plus job role.

Finally, and I hate to talk like a Tory, but some courses are poor value. Given the costs involved, very poor value.

I see that there is zero useful identification of overlap with students existing skills or capabilities to help aid choices, the careers advice is often non existent, and the signposting to career routes/paths and actual ex student destination data isn't great, and most students have never seen it.

Rant over.

TripleDaisySummer · 25/10/2023 15:05

LemonLight · 25/10/2023 14:36

@Blinkityblonk when you say you 'have' to pay, are you penalised if you don't? Or is it just advisory that you do? It's so different since I went to university but thank you for explaining.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/funding-uni/

This is a good site of explaining it all.

Depends where you are in UK.

If you are in England there is part of the loan you can take which expects a parental contribution - they don't enforce it but the student will have to do without the money otherwise - many parents seem to be unaware of this expectation and many students mange this shortfall by working.

dcsp · 25/10/2023 15:06

I think Martin Lewis's suggestion to the government on this subject is a good one: As parental income increases, the amount of student loan a child is eligible to borrow decreases. So by implication, the parent should be contributing (at leat) the difference between the amount the child is eligible to borrow and the amount they would be if it weren't for the parent's income. The government should make clear that parents should contribute this amount.

However OP, you should also remember that it's possible that they're saying "we can't afford to send them to university" because they think it'll be more accepted than "they don't want to go" or "they're not going to get the grades they'd need to go".

dcsp · 25/10/2023 15:07

TripleDaisySummer · 25/10/2023 15:05

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/funding-uni/

This is a good site of explaining it all.

Depends where you are in UK.

If you are in England there is part of the loan you can take which expects a parental contribution - they don't enforce it but the student will have to do without the money otherwise - many parents seem to be unaware of this expectation and many students mange this shortfall by working.

Ha, you just beat me to it!

nearlyemptynes · 25/10/2023 15:10

Just to be clear I certainly don't think uni is the best option for all, I think you should support each child in which ever route is right for them. My eldest went to uni and is now doing a masters it was right for him, my second is doing an apprenticeship- perfect for him, my daughter I will support to look at all options and choose the right one for her. My friends son is actually doing nothing at all at the moment.

OP posts:
MargotBamborough · 25/10/2023 15:11

Traysho · 25/10/2023 14:56

@MargotBamborough

i thought the threshold was about £28k? Nurses and Teachers will earn more than that at some point.

Oh, you mean to start repayments.

Sure, they'll repay some of it. But a huge amount will get written off after 30 years.

It's not just the amount, it's the compound interest.

I went to university almost 20 years ago, when the maximum maintenance loan was just over 3k a year. In my second and third year they introduced an extra loan for the tuition fees, which were then around 1200 a year. So the amount I initially borrowed was about 11k in total. Now I went to university before the financial crash, when the base rate was around 5%, and graduated around the time of the crash when the base rate fell to zero.

The loan starts accruing interest as soon as it is paid, so I started accruing interest on the first 1k or so in Freshers' Week, even though it would end up being another 6 years before I got my first pay cheque. Unlike many people, my starting salary was well above the repayment threshold.

By the time I graduated my student debt was around 13k, of which 11k was the original loan and 2k was interest. Most of that interest was accrued in the first couple of years when the base rate was still high. But then after I graduated, during the financial crash, I paid almost no interest at all, and one year literally no interest, because the base rate had fallen to 0. I then started working at 25 and had paid the whole lot off by the time I was 31.

Someone who started university between 2006 and 2011 will have paid about 3k a year in tuition fees, meaning that for a three year course they would have borrowed around 6k more than someone who started university in 2005 or before.

Someone who started university post 2012 will have paid 12k in tuition fees, which is literally ten times what I paid a few years previously. And that's before you factor in the maintenance loan. Once you factor in the maintenance loan, you have borrowings of over 15k per year, so over 45k for a 3 year course and over 60k for a four year course.

BUT the interest rates also changed. So someone who started university in 2012 was paying, if I remember correctly, 6% interest. Starting in Freshers Week. This was at a time when base rates were still hovering around zero, so the amount of interest they were paying was considerably higher than wealthy adults were paying on their mortgages, probably equivalent to a reasonable commercial loan, and only about half the rate I pay on my credit card.

If you combine total borrowings of 50-60k with 6% interest, and people not even beginning to pay back even a small amount until they exceed the earnings threshold, which may be quite a few years after graduation, that's how you end up with amounts that most people are never going to pay off.

Someone whose salary maxes out at around 35k might conceivably spend 20 years making repayments and then still end up owing more than they originally borrowed after 30 years when the remaining loan is written off at the taxpayer's expense.

All of this is quite apart from the fact that the maintenance loan barely touches the sides of the actual cost of living these days, leaving students and their parents to fund a shortfall of thousands of pounds a year.

MsRosley · 25/10/2023 15:13

Doteycat · 25/10/2023 13:46

God I think I will be so pleased if we can give our lot a house deposit.
WTF else is it for? sitting in the bank?
If I have it, they can have it. I have enough.
They work hard, and lets face it they will get it when we pop our clogs anyways. Id rather they had it now when they need it.
WTF else is money for. If you have it, I dont get not sharing it.

Worth bearing in mind that both of you might potentially need care for many years. A relative of mine spent £250,000 on care before she died, and that was only for 4-5 years. If you give all your savings to your kids, you need to be pretty confident that they will give up work and look after you in your old age - and how many parents can say that with confidence?