Christmas Leave 'I have kids'

[paintityellow]

Yes I know this comes up every year, but it's so bloody annoying. The Christmas leave list went around in September, with it being specified that priority for Christmas Day would be given to people who worked it last year.
Despite this we now have a couple of people really trying to pressure others to give up Christmas Day because 'I have kids'. One of these women has had the last 3 Christmas Days off, the other's kids are teenagers. One of the people they're trying to pressure wants to fly home to spend Christmas day with her parents, Another has no family in the area so also wants to travel home for Christmas. Both worked last year.
AIBU to find this attitude infuriating?

I think, you would try and balance each persons needs as best you can. It might not be perfect, but it would be the best you can do.

100% whoever works Christmas should swap every year to make it fair.

I'd actually argue that those who live on their own far from family should actually take priority than those who won't be spending Christmas alone and that includes those with kids! Those of you saying they should work Christmases so that people with kids can stay at home have clearly never had to spend Christmas completely alone before.

I used to have this in my team, with one selfish person booking every Christmas off in April (when our leave year starts). Thankfully, our organisation now closes for Christmas so we’re all off!

It could turn into one if a person doesn't take care of themselves though. If Christmas is potentially a trigger then maybe knowing they have it off and can visit family or even that they can lie in bed eating crap for the day is something for them to look forward to, as opposed to dreading the day.

you are basically happily discriminating against some employees to favour others. Wow.

I mean taking the hit and YOU not taking leave is one thing, and very commendable.

Refusing leave to others because you have decided someone has priority is outrageous, and very different from asking for volunteers for the period, before giving a fair allocation.

YANBU. I know some NHS hospitals let parents with children up to the age of 18 years choose their shifts including Christmas which means that everyone who doesn't have children gets no choice which I think is really unfair. It means that those without children often resign and/or do bank shifts.

We’ve just done the approvals for the Christmas and NY period. It’s based on - those who had time off last year will not get holidays approved and those who worked last year will get their requests approved.
Its irrelevant as to whether they have young children. No one has to justify why they want time off. Two complaints so far from people saying they couldn’t work over the school holidays. Both rejected as they had time off last year.

Christmas isn’t just for children, it’s for family.

What @Thewal said. Does this mean that because my Pagan nose has been shoved out of joint by the Christian (mis)appropriation of Yule and celebration of the Winter Solstice, I should get precedence? No?

Thought not, somehow.

(Slinks off with a fat bottom lip and a hangdog expression). 😪

that sounds perfectly fair!

This is fair. All the reasoning as to why 'my Christmas is more important than your Christmas' is actually really distasteful, and, as we've seen from this thread, is giving rise to some extremely tactless, prejudicial and downright nasty comments.

No one should owe an explanation of their personal circumstances to anyone. To Line Managers, who have to fill the gaps if someone goes off: yes - to all other colleagues who are more concerned with their own importance? Certainly not.

I've worked with a lady for 10 years in retail. The only day we are closed is Christmas Day, she has never worked Christmas Eve. Boxing Day, New Year's Eve or Day and none of the week in between.
How the hell she's managed it I don't know but all I hear is "children and grandchildren" . I have now started booking some time off in between immediately the holidays become available. We can book up to 12 months in advance. Last year at midnight on Boxing Day I booked this year's and I got it hooray. My kids are in their thirties and I want to spend time with them.

But stop it with the "spiteful".

If someone has no plan for that day, has help, yes they might be ok to give up their turn.

You cannot realistically expect everyone to cancel any plan they might have, never going away, never taking the kids they have on a Christmas holiday - the one year it was their turn to be off - because you think you are entitled to have that time off yourself.

It's outrageous that you expect them to find a way between them for you! They have a life, family too, having kids is irrelevant

I do think it's spiteful to have the outlook of fuck it, chuck the child at a nanny.

I've not said anything about everyone cancelling every plan they've made either.

Insommmmnia
The parent in that situation behaved appallingly. The is no justification for it.

I still wouldn't want to work in a team where the dominant attitude was shove a child to any Tom Dick and Harry on Christmas day.

Nope, there are a million ways to make your Christmas special with your children even if a parent has to work. Christmas Eve for starters. And most people don't work shifts longer than 8 hours. There's usually the morning, and/or the evening, to enjoy together.

It's awful to pressure people who have an equal right to want to spend time with their families to bend around those with kids who lack the imagination to deviate from some sort of factory pre-set of how Christmas Day should be.

If your kids are under 10, in many households you can have had 3 hours with them before work anyway....

But given that we accept we will never be able to know what the actual date was, and still want to celebrate one of the two most important mysteries of our faith, a date had to be chosen. The point is not that we believe it to be the precise date of Jesus's birthday but that that's the date when we will be able to gather together to celebrate it in prayer. If each Christian were to just pick their own date at random, we would miss the crux of the day: communal prayer.

If you're suggesting moving the religious celebration to another day, say 6th January, to avoid contamination with the secular elements of Christmas, that's a different question. But the fact that we can't know what day the original event happened on isn't a reason to not commemorate it on any day.

you don't need to talk about people cancelling their plans.

If you expect to be given the day off above anyone else, of course people will have to cancel plans.

I never said "fuck it, chuck the child", I said there ARE options, some easier than others, but enough options that it's not the responsibility of your department when they have their own problems and life to deal with.

Christmas is not a last-minute bank holiday, the one thing we all have is time to plan.

It's not about compassion. It's about the insulting assumption that those without kids don't have other dependents/calls on their time/reasons why having Christmas off might be important.

I think also, the difficulty with Christmas is that though it's both a Christian and Pagan religious celebration, that's very much not all it is.

There are people who don't celebrate Christmas at all, but nonetheless want or need it off due to any and all of caring responsibilities, transport, kids being off school or spouse being in a sector that closes for the holidays and wanting to spend time with them. It's not like any other religious festival in that respect. There are a lot of logistics attached.

And its for those without families too. Single people who would like to be with friends. People who would like to be alone, but still have the day off. People who want to go to church or be with their community.

I also think ... and I know there are exceptions to this... but for the vast majority of people there are friends or family of some kind that would look after your kids on Christmas day for you. Even if you're not great friends with them, your kid's best friend from school - if you asked their parents, I reckon maybe a lot would actually say yes they'd have your kid. They can relate very easily to what it would be like for their kid without their parent on Christmas day and most people are actually pretty kind and generous.

Admittedly it was years ago, but my parents had my brother's best friend over for Christmas day a couple of times due to his single mum having to work. We weren't particularly friendly with the mum, but it was honestly nice to have him - my brother was happy to have someone to play with all day.

An adult spending Christmas with their elderly parents is just as special as parents spending Christmas with their young children, for all anyone knows, it may be the last Christmas they get to spend with elderly parents .
yes some parents of young children are very selfish

Presumably the one flying home has booked a flight already or they might have an issue with finding a flight! Teenagers still like CJ rosy as but I’m personally fine spending time with adults at another time so would defer to someone who’s really wants it (whether the reason). A lot of childcare closes between Christmas and new year so it can be quite difficult for people. Tbh when you’re not tied to school holidays I think it’s much nicer to have time off outside of them!

I suspect you're right and most people do have someone, albeit I might be projecting my own situation there as I've got a number of loved ones who'd do it. But whenever this subject gets discussed, there are always people who say they literally have no other options. I can sort of imagine the AIBU threads from people who'd been asked by their kid's friend's single mum to have them on Christmas Day and didn't fancy it.

No yanbu, I also have kids but am working right up until Christmas this year as others have kids and others go home to be with their families. Luckily we don't have to cover anything Christmas Day but I have covered the day in the past in previous jobs. This year I'm off in between but that's because I worked it last year so it's fair for me to have this off.

I do understand with people that want to travel to see family etc needing the time off. But thinking about those working they would hopefully be finished by evening so could still see parents etc. Where as young children would be in bed so those parents wouldn't have any time with their children. Just a thought.