Christmas Leave 'I have kids'

[paintityellow]

Yes I know this comes up every year, but it's so bloody annoying. The Christmas leave list went around in September, with it being specified that priority for Christmas Day would be given to people who worked it last year.
Despite this we now have a couple of people really trying to pressure others to give up Christmas Day because 'I have kids'. One of these women has had the last 3 Christmas Days off, the other's kids are teenagers. One of the people they're trying to pressure wants to fly home to spend Christmas day with her parents, Another has no family in the area so also wants to travel home for Christmas. Both worked last year.
AIBU to find this attitude infuriating?

This. I have young adult children and it will be the first Christmas without their father and grandfather. Why would being with me be less important for them than for a young child with their other parent there?

I’ve learnt that if you don’t stand up for yourself, people will happily and deliberately shit on you.

Often, people without kids perhaps don’t spend Christmas in the area as their relatives are further away. When me and dh lived and worked in London, we spent Christmas with my parents/PILs who were 2-3 hours away (we stayed for a few days with them). One Christmas when I was required to work, I did the 3 hour each way commute from MIL’s to London to work the sodding day. I have kids so have been in both positions. Everyone needs to take their turn, unless people are happy to swap. It’s disgusting to apply pressure - but fairly typical these days.

The parents are responsible for their own child's happiness and there are plenty of jobs that don't involve working at Christmas.

There is a difference between volunteering because it doesn't matter to you and being bullied into it

There is indeed, but as so many have said, volunteering to work so others can have the day with their kids can go horribly wrong too

All too easily it can become a case of such-and-such being regarded as "the one who'll do it", and to hell with any appreciation for what they may already have done

The reason why someone wants time off is irrelevant - all employees are equal . Why should one person think their rights are greater than another .

Our Diversity & Inclusion policy seems for equal treatment for all.

No one should think they are judge and jury in terms of who has a greater needs, those with kids, those with caring responsibilities, travel requirements, charitable work, weddings, private person reasons they don't want to disclose etc

Everyone has their own reason.

Volunteers are looked for & are usually compensated for offering to work peak leave season. Preferences which have to be ranked NYE v Xmas day are taken into consideration, plus previous years worked.

It's fully transparent & well documented.

I swapped last year for just this reason, I have a 2 and 3 yr old.

Colleagues mum was never expected to make it to Christmas and she did, how could I not offer?

I should say, BTW, that if I had a job where being open on Christmas Day were an essential service (health care, social care, emergency services etc) then, even as a practising Christian, I would be prepared to work Christmas Day and hope that I'd be able to get to Mass at some point before or after my shift (we do deliberately try to schedule services to accommodate shift workers). It would be a much harder decision, morally, if it were something like a restaurant or hotel. As it is, I work for the church, so I work every Christmas Day anyway.

Yes I did say that terminally ill parents are of course more important than anyone. But 35 year old Helen visiting healthy 59 year old Brian and Sue is not.

But 35 year old Helen visiting healthy 59 year old Brian and Sue is not

Because Helen hasnt got living proof that she has had sex without contraception?

I think it’s fair enough to ask but also completely fair if nobody offers to swap.

some jobs will include working important dates and that is part and parcel of taking those jobs.

I’ve worked many Christmas days and celebrated on another day. I’ve also had Christmas off. I’ve swapped to give others the day off and others have swapped with me to give me the day off.

this year I’m on-call so may go in or may not, but definitely no drinking and will need to drop everything if I get called. 22nd - 27th.

I think it should be a bit of give and take all round and nobody seeing their Christmas as more important than someone else’s.

Tbh surely the easiest way to fix it is usually to pay double time or give an extra day off and then suddenly the whole thing becomes less important to some people!

Yes I did say that terminally ill parents are of course more important than anyone. But 35 year old Helen visiting healthy 59 year old Brian and Sue is not

Helen, Brian and Sue's Xmas is just as important as anyone else's.

So you don't think a year on/year off system is fair? You feel that parents should always be given first dibs and the non-parent colleagues should just accept that?

Nope. Helen’s reasons for wanting Christmas off are no less valid than those of any of her parent colleagues. If parents want to be with their children at Christmas, they need to make sure they are in a position to do that. It is nobody else’s job to facilitate it.

But 35 year old Helen visiting healthy 59 year old Brian and Sue is not.

The arrogance of this is astonishing. Why on earth do you think your kids should matter more to Helen than Brian and Sue? Breathtaking.

You simply can't do that without risking serious problems for your employer.

One employee's care issues are not every other employee's problem. Employment law does not make provision for an employer dictating a permanent requirement for one group of people to make way for another in that way.

It's not "called equity", it's either being a clueless manager or perhaps just being disingenuous.

Christmas is 90% about children .

And what a load of bollocks that is, too. Arbitrarily applying made up statistics to something to back up your opinion.

Bizarre. 😂

It’s not spiteful to decline to make a colleague’s childcare problem your own.

If someone choose to have children, and works a job that requires them to be present at Christmas, then that is on them. Childfree/childless colleagues should not be expected to step in to solve a problem that has nothing to do with them.

Ultimately, there are more jobs who don't require people to work at Christmas than jobs who do.

If you MUST be off on Christmas day, maybe make the necessary changes.

People might be happy, or resigned, to work most Christmases, but no way should they be forced to every year because their colleagues have decided their needs are more important.

Equally though (and i do agree with you), others can't then expect any wiggle room from their colleagues if they're stuck.

Also true. Being stuck does not oblige your colleagues.

I didn't know which to vote because in general YABU but the specific examples you've given of your colleagues are really shit so YANBU there.
Like who needs Christmas off with teens? And obviously if someone has had the last 3 off its unreasonable for them to have this one off.
But in general its OK to point out you have young kids and see if you can be accommodated. Of course it's not always possible. But there might be someone who doesn't give a shit about Christmas and wants hew year instead you could swap with.
I work on a small team of night staff and two of us have primary aged children and we all discussed what we proffered to work over the festive period with each other until we reached a solution together then we gave that to the manager who oked it. And yes the person with no young kids did end up working Christmas eve night but in gratitude we both picked up extra shifts so she had a full week off after that.

So Helen should never be able to visit Brian & Sue at Christmas? Because there will always be people with small children in the team, after all.

Year on / year off or similar with exemptions for genuine one-off reasons seems much fairer to me.

I don't think they do expect it.

The kind of people entitled enough to think they should never have to work Christmas because they have kids are not usually the type to return a favour.

Oh, are those without kids not allowed to celebrate Christmas then?

Outrageous suggestion I know, but perhaps instead those people with young children who don't want to work Christmas could find a job that doesn't require them to?