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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In-laws should be more sensitive about 11+

105 replies

OnlyFrog · 21/10/2023 05:55

I’ll start by acknowledging this is definitely a first world problem.

So, back in their day my husband and his parents all passed the 11+ and went to grammar schools. All very bright and successful in their academic careers.

I did not pass the 11+, which was a painful blow for years, but I went to the local comprehensive, got As and A GCSEs, 4As and A level (no A *available back then), got a first in a science degree at Oxford, PhD, then did graduate medicine and now working as a doctor.

We currently live in a non-grammar school area but DH said we could consider moving over the county boundary to an area with grammar schools.

We were chatting about this with his parents who are pro moving and say there are lots of benefits to grammar schools. I said I didn’t want the kids to go through the 11+ as i think it does a lot of emotional harm if you don’t pass. MIL said the kids are bright so no reason why they shouldn’t pass!

I was annoyed by this as it seems to imply that not passing means you’re not bright.

DH thinks I’m being too sensitive to take it that way. I just felt insulated and annoyed that they can’t see the harm in selecting on a single test. I also don’t like the way they put down comprehensives as being for less bright kids. I am so grateful to my teachers for all their support.

AIBU to be pissed off and think they should be more sensitive?

OP posts:
autiebooklover · 21/10/2023 06:10

It sounds like they touched a nerve but no I don't think they should have to be considerate of you not passing an exam you took a considerable number of years ago. You did well without it what difference does it make? They want your children to do it because it was a positive experience and beneficial for them. You presumably don't want your children to do it because it was a negative experience for you. This is something you and your husband need to hash out.

Zanatdy · 21/10/2023 06:16

I think it depends very much which grammars you’re applying for. My DS2 is very bright, but we didn’t tutor him for grammars and he didn’t get a place. We had an outstanding secondary on our doorstep so wasn’t worried. He left school with 9x9’s and 2x8’s - all over A in old money and he got 3 A in his A levels, now at Uni. DD is heading the same way with excellent GCSE predictions and we actually went to see a grammar this week for 6th form but she thinks her own secondary is better. It’s not the be all and end all. I think DS2 would have struggled as he enjoyed being top of the class and I don’t know how he would have managed with a class full of top students.

The grammars in my area (Wallington, Wilson’s, Tiffin etc) are some of the hardest to get into. In grammar areas where there’s a lot of grammars probably easier to get into. I wouldn’t move for a grammar school, I would move if I didn’t have a good or outstanding school within catchment. Ignore your in laws. Use you own example to show them you don’t need a grammar school to do well in life

JupiterJan · 21/10/2023 06:16

educational experiences are often better in a grammar school - this is because you are with children who's parents care about education. Why would you not want that opportunity for your children - you yourself know best how to protect them from taking it personally if they fail.

There is a conversation to be had, and not avoided because you don't like the subject

YABU to expect everyone to still be treading on eggshells around the topic of an exam you failed decades ago

MrsPatrickDempsey · 21/10/2023 06:16

Yanbu. This would really annoy me too! Grammar schools aren't for everyone. In our family some went; some didn't. It absolutely doesn't determine success. Shame these attitudes exist.

Dizzybelle · 21/10/2023 06:17

The brightest kids don’t necessarily end up in a grammar school and you are proof of that. Bright children will do well in any school.

So many of the kids that do end up going to grammar school have been tutored, for years before hand, to within an inch of the lives, to pass that one test, so not always get in on their natural abilities.

This has nothing to do with your in laws, you do what you think is right for your children. Based your own experience, and with your support and guidance your kids will do well in any school.

MikeRafone · 21/10/2023 06:20

I think you have your argument not to move - bright children will do well regardless & im proof of that.

SapphireOpal · 21/10/2023 06:20

Do they know you didn't pass?

MrsPatrickDempsey · 21/10/2023 06:20

I don't agree with @JupiterJan.
My daughter was at a super selective and did not have a good experience. Whilst emphasising the academic achievements sadly emotional health can often be. neglected by grammars.
My non grammar attending son was very supported in his learning by us and had a better schooling experience. Horses for courses.

JupiterJan · 21/10/2023 06:25

MrsPatrickDempsey · 21/10/2023 06:20

I don't agree with @JupiterJan.
My daughter was at a super selective and did not have a good experience. Whilst emphasising the academic achievements sadly emotional health can often be. neglected by grammars.
My non grammar attending son was very supported in his learning by us and had a better schooling experience. Horses for courses.

hence I said often, not always

Fluffycloudsfloatinginthesky · 21/10/2023 06:25

@Zanatdy not sure what school your daughter went to see but we are that area and my daughters friend has moved from grammar to non grammar for 6th form. My daughter also viewed grammar but decided to stay at existing school. She heard mixed reviews on girls grammar 6th form from a couple of pupils (not friends just girls it came up in conversation with)

Original poster
OnlyFrog · 21/10/2023 06:36

Thank you for the range of views.
it’s true this has touched a nerve. To answer one of the questions, my in-laws know full well that I did not pass and that it knocked my confidence for years.

OP posts:
SaracensMavericks · 21/10/2023 06:44

I think it's a bit of both - it was tactless of them to say this (assuming they know that you failed?) but you are also a bit over sensitive on the subject because of your own experience.

My kids are bright and are doing well at a comprehensive school so I agree with you. We're not in a grammar school area though.

Mumof2teens79 · 21/10/2023 06:44

I think they are idiots
Moving into a grammar school area is very risky.
I know a few who have done it, plus paid a fortune for 2-3yrs of 11+ tutoring and not got in.
Then they go to a comprehensive....but it's not truly a comprehensive because so many of the higher achieving kids go to grammars.

In grammar school areas competition for places means it's harder than ever to get in. Just passing or being bright isn't enough. It's hours of tutoring and then comes down to practice and maturity.

You are proof that you don't need a grammar school education to be academic or successful.

WandaWonder · 21/10/2023 06:48

OnlyFrog · 21/10/2023 06:36

Thank you for the range of views.
it’s true this has touched a nerve. To answer one of the questions, my in-laws know full well that I did not pass and that it knocked my confidence for years.

Edited

Then it would benefit you to work on this does it really matter in the whole of your life? Seriously?

Kittenkitty · 21/10/2023 07:03

I changed my vote after reading this. I think they’re unreasonable to speak like this if they know you failed. I moved for better schools but not to a grammar area. In my experience Doctors usually live in areas with good catchment schools anyway. And have the attitude to education and the access to extra curricular activities etc that help their children to thrive regardless.

MsJuniper · 21/10/2023 07:05

Do you think they felt defensive as it may have seemed you were implying they didn't care about the risk to their children's emotional wellbeing? I know that wasn't your intention but their reply could also be implying they didn't believe there was a risk therefore justifying their decision at that time.

yogasaurus · 21/10/2023 07:07

OnlyFrog · 21/10/2023 06:36

Thank you for the range of views.
it’s true this has touched a nerve. To answer one of the questions, my in-laws know full well that I did not pass and that it knocked my confidence for years.

Edited

Your reaction to it seems to have been very extreme if it knocked your confidence for years, and you’re still getting upset by it.

Haveyouseenthemuffinman · 21/10/2023 07:10

Yanbu to have an issue with your inlaws’ obsession with grammar schools.

yabu to let an exam you took at 10 to define how successful you feel - if anything, you prove how crazy a system is to discount children at a certain age. It’s not quite the same, because it was based on choice, but after my 11-16 comp, most of my friends went to a grammar school sixth form. I went to a fully comp, large sixth form college in a tough area, and was looked down for my choice. Guess which one of us got 5As…

Everydayimhuffling · 21/10/2023 07:12

If you go to a comprehensive, you are much better off at one in a non-grammar area where it's truly comprehensive. Also the levels of tutoring have exploded so it's a completely different situation to when his parents got in at least. Everyone loves grammars when they assume their DC will get in.

I would focus on making a reasoned argument rather than the emotion of whether they should have said it to you.

Maray1967 · 21/10/2023 07:12

OnlyFrog · 21/10/2023 06:36

Thank you for the range of views.
it’s true this has touched a nerve. To answer one of the questions, my in-laws know full well that I did not pass and that it knocked my confidence for years.

Edited

But they can forget - probably just didn’t think. In my case the comment was about how first time mums would naturally want to spend more time with their own mums than their in laws, knowing full well that my mum had died years before.

RoyalImpatience · 21/10/2023 07:12

Did you push back?

" mil I'm not sure that 11 plus is a good measure of intelligence? I didn't pass but Oxford accepted me with my 4 as"..

PuttingDownRoots · 21/10/2023 07:14

Its not the same as 20 years ago. I scrapped an 11+ pass with no tutoring... nowadays even bright children need it so their exam technique is on par with the other bright children. Children start tutoring in yr3 or yr4... its a lot of pressure on them.

We moved into an area with a good all round school and love it. DD is top set for Maths and Sciences, then gets extra help in English (dyslexia). Its perfect for her.

RoyalImpatience · 21/10/2023 07:16

You don't need tutoring my dc passed albeit without the proper maths, looking back I should have got her a maths tutor to teach her what she didn't know but she just passed.

If your child is working at greater depth they don't need it. It's a huge con...

whittingtonmum · 21/10/2023 07:16

I think you are right being pissed off. You know the struggle of not passing the exam so why inflict it on your children. Your PILs don't get a say in this so I would not discuss the matter with them further. In fact I would tell them in no uncertain terms to not discuss the issue in front of your children ever. They might have an opinion but it's none of their business so off they trott. Then I would sit DH down and have a very serious conversation on why you are putting your foot down on moving and grammar schools. I would ask him to validate your struggles, experience and achievements rather than labelling kids - such as yourself - who don't pass the exam as 'not bright' - given all the evidence to the contrary.

RoyalImpatience · 21/10/2023 07:18

She's also now apparently performing very high in the cohort and so far looks on course for 6 x 9 rest 8.

Op I would also push back that you don't feel 11 plus is good test of intelligence or want to go on about it.

My in laws are obsessed with numbers and showing off. We don't talk about it to them