To think 2 x full-time parents and no family support is quite unusual?

[bluepurpleangel]

I have read a lot of threads on MN recently where juggling life, work, childcare etc with both parents working full time and no family support seems to be the norm.

Is this really a reflection of real life? Thinking of people I know with younger children (say primary age or younger), I don’t think I know many two-parent families at all in this situation. In the vast majority of cases at least one parent works part-time and I also know quite a lot of families with a SAH parent.

Of those families where both parents work full time, they usually have some grandparent support with childcare or school pick ups etc.

Just seems a really sharp contrast to the situations I seem to read about on MN. Are my circles unusual or do others also find that 2 x FT working parents juggling everything on their own is quite rare?

I am a childminder, my husband is my assistant and we don’t have any support, our relatives are all in South America and most of the families of the children I’ve looked after didn’t have any support around them I was asked if I could be their emergency contact for their school as they didn’t have any one else. Most of my friends live quite far and they don’t have any family support either.

I don't know any couples where both parents work full time and get no help of family.

Weird- I know loads. We are one of those couples but loads of our friends are too.

I think that scenario of moving and becoming totally socially isolated is quite rare.

It's far more likely that both parents moved away from their respective hometowns for university and/or work, and haven't lived in their hometowns since they were teenagers. However, any friends they have in the town or city where they have settled also work full time, so friends aren't in a position to help out with emergency childcare needs.

2 parents both working full time, no family in a position to help, dad works dads mum works nights!

This is us too. I work full time as does my husband. I consolidate my hours into 4 x 10 hour days. Husband works 5 days a week. I can’t work from home due to my profession. My children are 4, 2 & 11 months. PIL live 5 hours away and don’t help at all even though they are now both retired. Give all their time and energy to BIL & SIL and their children who are local to them. My family are local but Mum is too old to help and my Dad passed away. I’m the only one I know in my situation like this. All of my friends get family support. It’s hard work and that’s why we have recently hired a cleaner as I found it too hard doing it all. We have to pay for help for all childcare, including the one off date night.

That’s what we did. We lived in London, parents up North. We had to pay for all our childcare.

So many people have answered the thread by telling me they both work FT and have no family support 🤦‍♀️ I didn’t say you didn’t exist! I just had the impression that it was more unusual.

FWIW - we are currently one of those families too but I’ve just accepted a PT, more local role and so from December will get to try a different set up.

This was me for years. I have (other than maternity leave) worked FT. Now I’m a single parent working FT with no family support.

It’s not uncommon.

I work 4 days (though in reality that’s usually 40+ hours and often work on days off) and hubby works 5. Two of his days are shorter around school pick-up.

We split childcare between us when DD was little.

No real family support. Have had two ‘dates’ child free in 5 years 😩 Often feel very jealous when I see FB full of people off on ‘date nights’ whilst family look after kiddies.

For us, we each only have one parent living. Mine would help but is physically unable. His doesn’t really know what to do with a young child. No siblings in the picture either, so that’s the way it is for us.

I'm 4/5, my partner is 5/5. I don't personally know many people who work less than that though there are definitely lots. They're either wealthy or don't earn enough for childcare costs to be significantly covered by their wages.

We have never had any family support and don't think that will change. I know plenty of people with zero family support. I suspect that having children later in life means grandparents are much older these days so helping out is more difficult for them, but I'm also not sure it even occurs to some people to help.

However! I'm in the process of changing my career so I can be more flexible. Can't imagine how we'd handle school without much more flexibility. Don't know how so many people do it.

Would say it’s 75/25 in my circle.. 75% 2 x FT parents with no local family support but generally paid for support, and 25% 1 x FT and 1 x PT or SAHM.. was the same where we previously lived too. Most adults I know left home for uni and didn’t go back, or have moved for/with work. and most mums I know have careers they’ve spent years developing. Even those with family locally tend to have moved home later and have parents who will help out occasionally but definitely not “on hand” as have busy lives still themselves. so for me it’s the opposite of your experience.

No, I think it is education dependent!
if you are a graduate and want a decent graduate job you HAVE to be prepared to live wherever the job is . I’m 60 now, and knew this way back. After university I moved 200 miles from my parents, my dh parents were 500 miles away. My dbs had to do similar things, so we were all spread out over the country.
all my friends who went to university (as did most of my school friends) were similarly dispersed right around the country.
we both worked full time, I did go part- time until eldest was 3.5 and youngest 2, but needed to go back full time. We managed with child minders (few nurseries then), and then au pairs once they were both at primary (cheaper basic care and flexible) . School holidays and sickness was a nightmare but somehow we did get through it - bosses got pissedmoff sometimes but because we both were good at our jobs and would put “the hours in “ they learnt to be flexible in their own interest. Most people I knew and women I worked with were in same position.

The issue has become more common with the opening up of university eduction under new labour. Kids are going to university now, without really understanding that to get good graduate jobs they can’t stay at “home” area (unless vocational or lucky). I think that’s a big shock to many families. Including the parents of that generation who never went into further education and don’t understand how the graduate job market works.

I have literally never lived anywhere in my life longer than 12 years: I’ve lived as far north as Newcastle, as far south as Kent and Sussex, been both sides of the Pennines, and a number of other counties. I don’t have a place I really call “home” where my routes are …and that suddenly becomes a problem when I retired (knew before). I’m now in my “carry me out in a box” home and working hard at finally putting roots down. But my own dc are settling down 100s of miles away for the exact same reasons - they have to go where they can get good graduate jobs.

but , the net result of this is that families are broken up geographically and new parents just don’t automatically have that support they would have had in previous generation by living and working in the “home” area. It is what has led to the massive rise in childcare providers and needs.

so, I’d say amongst graduates, it will be common, but less so if you both didn’t go to university.

We are both full time and have grand parent support on one day a week. Nothing further. We have had to pay a fortune in nursery still. In my friendship circle we are the rarity. Almost all others have part time jobs and parental support.

We were both working ft with 3 kids and no family help, in London. Not with big money jobs.
But dp worked sessional hours and I managed to negotiate a couple of days with compressed/extended hours and we just about coped.
Nightmare when child sick though.

It can depend on many things. In some job sectors, it’s so common for people to have relocated (often internationally, multiple times) just to establish or maintain a career. People in those sectors often, disproportionately know people in a similar situation. New people to an area tend to make up the majority of people seeking new friends for fairly obvious reasons too - so they meet more people who don’t live near family.

Similarly, people who stay local tend to know lots of people who’ve also stayed local. They have established networks in their local area. So they often just know fewer people with no family support.

Similar things probably contribute to women who’ve always maintained FT careers having networks made up with a greater number of people in the same situation.

Not sure where you hang out but its real life for us. Two parents working full time (one 60 plus hours) and parents not even in same hemisphere. Its the same for most of our friends. This was standard for everyone I worked with in London when my kids were born. Many had parents overseas, had long commutes and big career demands.

It did mean that there was a parallel universe between our experience and the parents at the school or nursery gate who would head off for coffee or play groups or yoga. I was more the harried parent racing for the tube that never attended anything. My source of support was my colleagues, not other local mums.

Of those I know with kid(s) under 8-

We work f/t, but compressed, and have family help.
Friend 1 works 4 days, her DH works 4.5, they have family help.
Friend 2 both work f/t but different shifts and have family help.
Friend 3 she works f/t her DH p/t, no real family help except emergencies.
Friend 4 due to have baby, both plan to work f/t with no family help.

It's very normal in my circle OP. Out of my immediate circle of parents that I work with / know well (8 including us)

6 have 2 full time working parents and often grandparents are oversees/a long way away so no help
1 has 2 full time working parents but grandparents down the road
1 has 1 full time and 1 part time parent with lots of family support nearby.

The kids are all aged from 2-7

Generally I find people either pay for full time child care (8 - 5 Mon - Fri) in our case, or make sure their shifts don't overlap or they utilise after school clubs or childminders for pick ups.

I work PT now but that is a fairly recent thing, and is due to a long term illness more than anything. However before, we both worked FT, had nothing in the way of family support (as it all goes to the other grandchildren) and it was very difficult. It’s still very difficult even with me having reduced my hours slightly. It doesn’t reflect our local area at though (very affluent) where most mums are SAHMs through choice and the dads work and earn enough to support the family. Family support seems to be 50:50 as to whether people have help or not. Many people have nannies for their children to fill the family support gap (we do not as I grew up with a nanny that I saw more than my parents).

Up to a year ago we both worked full-time with no family support plus caring for my Mum. We'll have to do it again soon out of financial necessity. It helps that I can leave the office during the day for school events if I make up time and I can work from home. We also have short commutes.

We both work full time, never had any support from grandparents. My parents might babysit in the evening 2 or 3 times a year if we’re lucky! We have 3 kids, 2 currently in primary and the oldest in year 8. I work from home and don’t have wrap around childcare of any sort, we just juggle. We are both self employed though so can be a bit more flexible with the actual hours we work although it’s never less than 40 per week each.

Both work full time. No family support. Lots of friends in the same boat.

We both work full time and have zero help from family!

It’s quite normal even though managing it requires a school with wrap around care and a network of holiday clubs and activities planned well in advance. If I’d been 33 not 43 when I became a mum, I would definitely have continued full time work. However, I felt I’d been there and done that so could afford to work part time and not worry about my career. As it was, I just picked it all up again once the DC was older

My DD and SiL both work full time and they don't have any family support either we live nearly an hours drive away and I look after my disabled DH, so it wasn't feasible to commit to childcare. Her DH family live 5 hours drive away.
So if your family live locally and are available great but not everyone has that.