Page 7 | To insist my 12-yr old collects nine-yr old from school

Bigroundpear · 2023-10-16T13:12:07+00:00

My nine-year-old is in year 5 at a small inner-city state primary a five minute walk from home. School policy is for children to only be able to walk home alone from year 6 which I fully accept (though I don't particularly agree with it). Last week I let the school know that my 12-year old (who is in secondary school and travelled alone from year 5 for 40 mins each way - different school) would be collecting nine-year-old from school today. School emailed back to refuse because their policy is siblings who collect must be over 14. I emailed back to say I will be exercising my parental responsibility, that it's up to me what happens to my child outside of school and I will not be there to collect, but my oldest child will. My kids have done this same journey alone together often (school is next to a supermarket they visit together frequently), I have risk-assessed this and feel confident that though of course there are risks, everything that needs to be is in place to prevent them coming to harm. I have prepared both kids for all eventualities with the school today, including that they may call social services (not bothered about this, know SS won't do anything). I think the school is over stepping the mark, and should release my nine-year-old, however I'm sad I have put office staff in this position. AIBU?

Original poster

Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 16:22

BCSurvivor · 16/10/2023 16:06

I agree with @Primproperpenny
It's far too much responsibilty - and an assumption - to give a 12 year old regular sole responsibility for a 9 year old, not just on a 40 minute journey home from an inner city school, but looking after the 9 year old at home, on her own, until you finish work.
I appreciate that you say it's just 45 minutes home alone until you get home from work, but travel delays happen, plans can change.
What if your 12 year old wanted to do an after school club/go home with a friend/play sports etc?
I think you're being very unfair to your 12 year old.

It's three days this week then not again unless an emergency. My 12-year-old has just started secondary school so generally makes his way straight home to do homework. As a one-off I don't think it impacts his ability to socialise and do clubs etc.

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Original poster

Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 16:23

Blueisacolour · 16/10/2023 16:21

This. When mine were in primary school (older teens now), I had a conversation with the head, who mentioned she was thinking of implementing a rule that only year 6 could leave alone (at the time it was year 4 upwards). I said it would actually make things more dangerous for the kids, as from year 7 most of them would be catching a bus to the town 10 miles away, where some would then have a walk across town and a further bus change (or a 30 min walk on busy roads). I think that's just too big a jump to expect them to reasonably manage in 1 year. Most kids lived in the (fairly quiet) village, and being able to walk home alone from year 4 when other parents/kids were doing the same journey (and parents could meet them part way at the start) was actually the safest way to start building those independent travel skills that they would need in year 7. The head didn't change the rules while we were at the school, but this was before 2015 so I have no idea what it's like there now.

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Totally sensible argument, wish my kid's school would be this thoughtful

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BaconEggAndCoffee · 16/10/2023 16:26

Blondeshavemorefun · 16/10/2023 15:48

Our school doesn't allow siblings under 16 to pick up

So what you would want is a def no at our school

As shown in this thread this just isn't true. The school can not make that decision

Blondeshavemorefun · 16/10/2023 16:30

ginandtonicwithlimes · 16/10/2023 16:10

Only over 16's can collect children at my child's primary school.

Same as ours

Think we are in the minority

ginandtonicwithlimes · 16/10/2023 16:33

BaconEggAndCoffee · 16/10/2023 16:26

As shown in this thread this just isn't true. The school can not make that decision

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Wonder how you think that? They just won't release the child.

GrandTheftWalrus · 16/10/2023 16:36

My DD is in primary 3 (scotland) and we still need to collect however from p4 they can go home on their own if the parents wish. I've also seen p7 (10/11) picking up younger siblings and taking them home. Maybe it's because all the kids live quite close to the primary. I can see it from my window and I know DD will be coming home on her own soon.

willWillSmithsmith · 16/10/2023 16:37

Theoldcuriosityshop · 16/10/2023 14:24

When I was 9 I was taking my 5 year old sibling to and from school. How things have changed.

When I was in primary I sometimes had to get my brother from infants and bring him home. One day I forgot and my mum nearly had a heart attack when she got home and he wasn’t there. 😬 she got to the school to find him sitting all forlorn in the assembly hall. Boy did I get a telling off! 😁

ru53 · 16/10/2023 16:40

No wonder people find parenting so hard these days, parents seem to be expected to/ need to work longer & longer hours but also be in 2 places at once or pay for childcare. It must be so hard to get the balance right, of course we all want our children to be safe but how can they learn independence and life skills if they are never given the opportunity? I was shocked recently at work that a 14 year old work experience student lacked the confidence to take a 10 minute bus journey alone. After reading this thread it makes sense.

Original poster

Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 16:43

ginandtonicwithlimes · 16/10/2023 16:33

Wonder how you think that? They just won't release the child.

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What does that mean, though? not releasing the child. What if I decided to do this every day to make a point? What then? Would they just keep hold of him each and every day? (I am not doing that, normally I pay for childcare, this is for a limited time). Seriously, what can a school do if I say I want my child to go home alone? And social services would say 'let the child go.'

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Reugny · 16/10/2023 16:43

Blondeshavemorefun · 16/10/2023 16:30

Same as ours

Think we are in the minority

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Not at mine.

It is age dependent e.g. under 8s v 8+

Also the after school club runs to 5.30pm. It would probably run to 6pm but no-one has asked for it this year.

Original poster

Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 16:44

ru53 · 16/10/2023 16:40

No wonder people find parenting so hard these days, parents seem to be expected to/ need to work longer & longer hours but also be in 2 places at once or pay for childcare. It must be so hard to get the balance right, of course we all want our children to be safe but how can they learn independence and life skills if they are never given the opportunity? I was shocked recently at work that a 14 year old work experience student lacked the confidence to take a 10 minute bus journey alone. After reading this thread it makes sense.

Agree. My workplace is very flexible, but three days in office a week is mandatory as I need to be here for work. My children relish responsibility and I'm proud of how well they manage.

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Reugny · 16/10/2023 16:46

Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 16:43

What does that mean, though? not releasing the child. What if I decided to do this every day to make a point? What then? Would they just keep hold of him each and every day? (I am not doing that, normally I pay for childcare, this is for a limited time). Seriously, what can a school do if I say I want my child to go home alone? And social services would say 'let the child go.'

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As your 9 year old is in after school club then if they refuse to let them go home the 9 year old will stay there until you pick them up at 5.35pm.

I personally would ignore any of their phone calls if they did that.

They can get pissed off but there is nothing they can do.

Blondeshavemorefun · 16/10/2023 16:49

As there is no set age limit to leave a child alone /in charge of younger children ir can cause issues

Would ss say a 12yr should look after a minor when they are a minor theirselves

Stroopwaffels · 16/10/2023 16:52

English schools (I'm presuming you're in England OP) are nuts about this getting to and from school with an adult and setting out rules about what parents can and can't do.

We don't have any of that nonsense in Scotland.

Marblessolveeverything · 16/10/2023 16:56

With respect - you mention you were a social worker for 12 years - so I would guess your experience means you (sadly) have a clearer view of what is a realistic threat versus the perceived threat.

I am in Dublin, Ireland, my 9 year old walks with his pals home to me - I WFH. His brother is 15 and often minds him for an hour if I am popping to the shops etc. They both make their lunches, know how to put a snack/meal together and help with housework. I don't appear to have half the nonsense some refer to hear behaviour wise - and I think there is a correlation.

Jellycatspyjamas · 16/10/2023 16:56

Would ss say a 12yr should look after a minor when they are a minor theirselves

The law says they can, while the parent is held responsible if anything happens to both children/either child. If SS did become involved it would be for the parent to explain their risk assessment and SS to take a decision on whether the risk had been fully assessed. The reality is unless both children were very young or there were other risk factors SS just wouldn’t have the capacity to deal with it.

ginandtonicwithlimes · 16/10/2023 16:57

Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 16:43

What does that mean, though? not releasing the child. What if I decided to do this every day to make a point? What then? Would they just keep hold of him each and every day? (I am not doing that, normally I pay for childcare, this is for a limited time). Seriously, what can a school do if I say I want my child to go home alone? And social services would say 'let the child go.'

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I mean they won't let your child go home with a sibling who obviously looks younger than 16. They would probably keep the child in a classroom until you arrive. They will say it is up you to be arranging with your workplace to be flexible. What else is going to happen? Your older child dragging their sibling away? I don't see the point of trying to make a "point" when they have rules. It makes you come across as a bit of arse/awkward. It won't do you any favours.

Our school does let year 4 and above walk home by themselves.

Jellycatspyjamas · 16/10/2023 16:59

They would probably keep the child in a classroom until you arrive. They will say it is up you to be arranging with your workplace to be flexible. What else is going to happen? Your older child dragging their sibling away?

They have no legal basis not to allow the child to leave, detaining a child against their parents expressed, written wishes however…

ginandtonicwithlimes · 16/10/2023 16:59

Stroopwaffels · 16/10/2023 16:52

English schools (I'm presuming you're in England OP) are nuts about this getting to and from school with an adult and setting out rules about what parents can and can't do.

We don't have any of that nonsense in Scotland.

Do you know what every individual schools rules are in Scotland regarding pick ups? Seems a silly comment otherwise.

Reugny · 16/10/2023 17:00

ginandtonicwithlimes · 16/10/2023 16:57

I mean they won't let your child go home with a sibling who obviously looks younger than 16. They would probably keep the child in a classroom until you arrive. They will say it is up you to be arranging with your workplace to be flexible. What else is going to happen? Your older child dragging their sibling away? I don't see the point of trying to make a "point" when they have rules. It makes you come across as a bit of arse/awkward. It won't do you any favours.

Our school does let year 4 and above walk home by themselves.

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One or more staff members are going to enjoy being at school until 5.35pm 3 times this week then.

Original poster

Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 17:01

Marblessolveeverything · 16/10/2023 16:56

With respect - you mention you were a social worker for 12 years - so I would guess your experience means you (sadly) have a clearer view of what is a realistic threat versus the perceived threat.

I am in Dublin, Ireland, my 9 year old walks with his pals home to me - I WFH. His brother is 15 and often minds him for an hour if I am popping to the shops etc. They both make their lunches, know how to put a snack/meal together and help with housework. I don't appear to have half the nonsense some refer to hear behaviour wise - and I think there is a correlation.

Thank you - i agree this is a factor. I absolutely do know how to assess risk to children, did it for years and not to sound like a total dick, but I do have two masters degrees in it. Even if I didn't have the experience and quals, I still think someone with PR has the responsibility, not the school.

Totally agree with you that giving responsibility to children leads to good outcomes. I worry about children being crippled with anxiety and think this is a great way to encourage them to think for themselves and become self-reliant.

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Original poster

Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 17:01

Update is they're both home safe and sound and I'm leaving work to get them.

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ginandtonicwithlimes · 16/10/2023 17:03

Reugny · 16/10/2023 17:00

One or more staff members are going to enjoy being at school until 5.35pm 3 times this week then.

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I feel sorry for them then as it is the school that makes the rules. OP won't care though.

BaconEggAndCoffee · 16/10/2023 17:04

ginandtonicwithlimes · 16/10/2023 16:57

I mean they won't let your child go home with a sibling who obviously looks younger than 16. They would probably keep the child in a classroom until you arrive. They will say it is up you to be arranging with your workplace to be flexible. What else is going to happen? Your older child dragging their sibling away? I don't see the point of trying to make a "point" when they have rules. It makes you come across as a bit of arse/awkward. It won't do you any favours.

Our school does let year 4 and above walk home by themselves.

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But the rules are not enforceable.

What if the op didn't come and collect?

You can believe whatever you want but the school has no legal right to stop your child leaving. Perpetuating this nonsense helps no one.

Reugny · 16/10/2023 17:04

Bigroundpear · 16/10/2023 17:01

Update is they're both home safe and sound and I'm leaving work to get them.

😂

All's well that ends well