To insist my 12-yr old collects nine-yr old from school

[Bigroundpear]

My nine-year-old is in year 5 at a small inner-city state primary a five minute walk from home. School policy is for children to only be able to walk home alone from year 6 which I fully accept (though I don't particularly agree with it).

Last week I let the school know that my 12-year old (who is in secondary school and travelled alone from year 5 for 40 mins each way - different school) would be collecting nine-year-old from school today. School emailed back to refuse because their policy is siblings who collect must be over 14.

I emailed back to say I will be exercising my parental responsibility, that it's up to me what happens to my child outside of school and I will not be there to collect, but my oldest child will. My kids have done this same journey alone together often (school is next to a supermarket they visit together frequently), I have risk-assessed this and feel confident that though of course there are risks, everything that needs to be is in place to prevent them coming to harm. I have prepared both kids for all eventualities with the school today, including that they may call social services (not bothered about this, know SS won't do anything).

I think the school is over stepping the mark, and should release my nine-year-old, however I'm sad I have put office staff in this position.

AIBU?

So glad you stood your ground. That they think a year 6 is safe to go alone bit a year 5 isn't safe with a 12 year old makes no sense anyway.

I can see both sides here.

As a parent, you know your 12 year old, and whether they are responsible enough to safely collect your youngest from school.

However, for the school this is an arse covering exercise. The school has a duty of care to the children, and they need a policy in place, because if they release a 9 year old into the care of a 12 year old and the worst does happen - who do you think the parent is going to try to blame?

If you've got time to slag someone off on the internet, you've got time to think beforehand about whether the things you are about to say are either true, necessary or helpful.

You should stand your sacred ground on this. The erosion of parental authority coupled with the increase of parental responsibility is making parenting impossible

School tried this with one of mine, DH was home as he is disabled, school was 2 or 3 minutes walk away with no roads to cross, parents park outside my house so child hardly walking alone in remote area. We just said no they were not being collected, it wasn't necessary. School did give in. It was 20 years ago so this has been going on for some time.

Stand your ground. I used to walk my brother home, I was about 12 he was 9, it was 25 minutes away. I would warm up our dinner and serve it and about 1 hour later max my mum would arrive from work. I am fine. No PTSD and my mother has two useful adults as a result.

The issue is not all 12 year olds are equal. Some would be totally incapable of caring for a younger sibling. Some families have children of that age who are engaging in seriously risky behaviour- from vaping through to county lines. The school clearly have to have a policy. The policy cannot read “sensible 12 year olds” are fine. It also blurs the lines between totally irresponsible parents who would happily let their 5 year olds run the streets with older kids.

I can see the school have allowed it and I don’t see any issue with your children doing that personally. But the school don’t have the time to individually assess every family. I’m sure there are families they would feel very unhappy saying yes to. I don’t think school are lacking common sense here.

I have strong opinions on this, as a child I was often responsible for younger siblings, I was seen as the sensible one, very mature for my age, and the adults in my life were all very confident in saying the sorts of things people are saying here, my 12 year old is sensible, I trust them, they know what to do etc. BUT. I cannot emphasise enough how much having too much responsibility at a young age has affected me. Google oldest daughter syndrome.

My son is in year 4 but at his school they let year 5/6 out of school alone as in the teacher isn’t stood there watching who they go to. Some walk home alone and some are meeting their parents somewhere or going to the infant school to get them. I’m pretty sure I was year 5/6 when I had a key and walked myself home from school and let myself in and had an hour until a parent was home. It’s a tough one because I know I’m a clingy parent but my children will never be independent if I don’t calm down.

I also find now as a parent that schools really micro manage you and it grinds my gears. 85% of their waking hours are still spent at home so what I want and what I say should be the law. When they are in school then absolutely it’s for the school to police but if we look at it like we would work they may be the line managers but I am the CEO and should have final say. If you have risk assessed and are happy with the arrangement then it’s your call and school should respect that

It’s ridiculous. I at the age of 12 picked my sister up from school (she was in reception at the time) all the way through until we were 19 and 11.

i will likely get rude responses for saying this, but I think you’re adultifying your 12 year old and your child care arrangements should not be their concern. They are still a child and should not be placed with the responsibility of a younger junior school child crossing roads without an adult present. That’s not being a helicopter parent, it’s called correct parenting.

My daughter is August-born and has just gone into y7 at secondary, aged 11 and a few weeks. Do I have to fetch and carry her in person to and from secondary school for the rest of this year, and can I only let her get the bus by herself once she's going into y8, and officially 12??!!

In practice she has walked herself back from the village primary school every now and then since y5 / aged 9, and consistently back by herself in y6 / aged 10, to the point where her friends would walk home with her so they could get the 'independent experience of walking to / from school' which they couldn't get as they lived outside of the village and were always driven in.

As a result she happily and confidently gets the bus to secondary (walk to bus stop, wait for bus, 45m bus ride); gets herself to her clubs after school (10m walk); and can get herself into the nearby town on half days (10m walk), arranges for a pick up or gets the bus back to the village afterwards.

She can cook pizza, bakes cakes in the oven and uses the microwave to heat up tea / leftovers etc.

If you think that your 12 year old is confident enough to do these things and knows what to do in an emergency, plus the younger one will listen in these circumstances, go ahead. You know your children best.

None of this is 'making them grow up too soon' - it's giving them confidence to cope with situations which they come across, and the ability to handle change. In the very real modern world it also gives parents a degree of flexibility that sometimes they really need.

Well I would counter your argument rudely only I'm laughing too hard. What a load of tosh.

I swear there's a whole section of mumsnet that thinks no child should have any responsibility at all til age 18.

Although you will be responsible for them on their journey home the school are responsible for handing over that child to a responsible caregiver and said 12 year old is not mature enough to take on that responsibility!

A 12 year old and nine year old shouldn’t cross a road without an adult???

The school is not telling you what you can allow your child to do outside school, in this instance. They are saying they cannot take the risk of something happening to your nine-year-old because they released them into the care of a twelve-year-old (a child needs to be at least 13 to take responsibility for another child). I can see it is difficult for you, and normally I am utterly at one not only with schools having no jurisdiction outside school but also having no jurisdiction over what you say your child cannot do in school, but in this case, it is a matter of safety, and the school is looking not only to your child's safety but to their responsibility to the child and legal liability if anything happens. You need to talk to the school about another solution.

Youre basically letting a child collect a child so no i agree with school. They have a responsibility to keep your child safe and to make sure the 9 year old leaves with a responsible adult

Agree. IMO too many parents force their parenting duties onto older siblings

Haven’t read all the responses are many are far too tedious and judgemental…..

but as far as I can see not one person has addressed the absent father of these children, whose actions have put mum in a spot of having to juggle childcare, children at different schools and working.

seems to be a sensible working family doing the best they have with the resources available and teaching kids essential life skills in the mix.

not everyone can change their hours, job, lifestyle at a whim and unfortunately when there is just one adult at the held the struggle is all too real.

also, just to fan the outrage, my ten year old cycles too and from school most days by herself. Entertains herself for a COUPLE of hours till we get home from work. She seems fine and only twitches and spasms when exposed to prolonged human contact.

Oh yes ‘the old days!’… if only we could go back to putting 9 year olds to work hey!! 🙄🙄

And yes clearly the above is sarcasm…. No idea how some people compare what used to go on years ago as if it was a good thing!

Yeah, you should really read the OPS updates.

@Bigroundpear you sound like an amazing mum. I also have 2 boys but for various reasons and disabilities, they are nowhere near as independent as yours.
On a separate school issue, and considering your SS background, I was wondering if I could get your opinion on something?
My son's secondary school has a policy where if they haven't seen the child at school for 48hrs because they are poorly, then for safeguarding, they have to do a home visit to check on the safety and wellbeing of the child.
My son gets really poorly when he is ill and unlike his brother whom still attended school when ill, he is to unwell to be in school.
I have refused to allow them to do a home visit and as I told them, I believe that they are overstepping their authority. It's my decision as the parent to keep my child off. I have provided proof for the reason he is off via Dr's appointment and photos of medication.
I told them that if they have any safeguarding concerns, they are obligated to call SS, whose job it is to do home visits.
Last year they threatened me with calling the police if I didn't allow them to my home to which I told them to crack on with it.
This year they still turned up on my doorstep after I told them not to. When I refused to let them in, they said they would have to make a report to SS. I again told them to crack on with it and not to forget to include the fact that in the 3 years he has been there, he has never been late, never had a behavioural issue, and you have proof of him being poorly.
In your opinion, would someone at social services even entertain such a report?
If SS did turn up on my door, I would happily invite them in and show them that there are no safeguarding concerns as it is their job. My issue is with the school, thinking that they have the authority to demand that I let them in my house.

Totally agree.

My, you're easily amused.