To insist my 12-yr old collects nine-yr old from school

[Bigroundpear]

My nine-year-old is in year 5 at a small inner-city state primary a five minute walk from home. School policy is for children to only be able to walk home alone from year 6 which I fully accept (though I don't particularly agree with it).

Last week I let the school know that my 12-year old (who is in secondary school and travelled alone from year 5 for 40 mins each way - different school) would be collecting nine-year-old from school today. School emailed back to refuse because their policy is siblings who collect must be over 14.

I emailed back to say I will be exercising my parental responsibility, that it's up to me what happens to my child outside of school and I will not be there to collect, but my oldest child will. My kids have done this same journey alone together often (school is next to a supermarket they visit together frequently), I have risk-assessed this and feel confident that though of course there are risks, everything that needs to be is in place to prevent them coming to harm. I have prepared both kids for all eventualities with the school today, including that they may call social services (not bothered about this, know SS won't do anything).

I think the school is over stepping the mark, and should release my nine-year-old, however I'm sad I have put office staff in this position.

AIBU?

I walked home alone aged 9 and used to collect younger siblings when in secondary school so I think this sounds absolutely fine and school are being over the top. It's not the law so I can't see how they can enforce it and I can't see that it is a safeguarding concern either.

By law a child over 8 can walk home I am sure.

How is a five minute walk and 45 minutes at home alone three days a week being a substitute parent?

If you've got time enough to get into an argument with the school, you have enough time to arrange an adult or time off to collect your child.

Lets be honest, this is the start of a slippery slope to using the 12year old as regular childminder isn't it? Put as much effort into getting your shit together as you do bitching and all will be well.

There's probably 30 weeks left of school before the youngest goes to y6.
I think you have been very clear on your rationale and that school should be willing to have a discussion with you on it.
They have a duty of care but I don't think blanket rules really deliver those well.
I also think people are forgetting that children these days aren't really independent or isolated due to technology in the same way. Mobile phones have changed everything. They can be tracked or spoken to all the way home as needed if so desired. I'm not suggesting it is but it's an option.
OP it sounds like you have brought your children up in line with your values and they have a clear understanding of how to behave in these situations.
Hope this gets resolved sensibly.
My mum makes me laugh now, she adopted later in life and spends her time running the kids back and forth to school and clubs, especially in winter "because it's pitch black".
Let me tell you now, she didn't even get out of bed to wave me off when I was 12 and getting myself up in the pitch black to get on a bus alone @ 6.45am to a school two bus rides away with no mobile phone til I was 16.
Even parents who raised 80s kids have different expectations now of this current generation. It's hard to navigate through the depth of our risk aversion.

I think the school are just trying to cover themselves - I’ll bet a lot of the staff there agree with you but policy is policy. My 12 year old SD is more than capable of looking after her younger siblings, and does so in the school holidays on Tuesday mornings for 1.5 hours whilst I take the youngest to his swimming lesson. She watches her 5 year old sister, I had insisted they come in the waiting room for the 1.5 hour for the first couple weeks and it was her (the 12 year old) that said she would be perfectly fine at home with her sister. She demonstrated to me everything she would do in a lot of scenarios that I gave her and it was a lot of random ones 😂 I don’t rely on her for childcare of her sister and younger brothers on a regular basis as I am a stay at home mum, but she doesn’t enjoy coming out with us on errands anymore, e.g food shopping. So I let her stay at home. If her brother or sister wants to stay with her, I will ask her first if she doesn’t mind and I trust that they will all be okay. How will she learn to be trustworthy and responsible if she is not given the chance?
The only thing I could possibly disagree with is that it should be up to the 12 year old as it is not their responsibility to look after their siblings but I believe they should be given the chance if they would like to depending on the amount of time. I am their mother, not her but it is absolutely wonderful when she wants to help. ☺️

When I was 11 and year 7 I regularly collected by brother from school and he was yr R! By the time he was 9 - I was 16 and use to take him on the bus and train for trips out as I earned my own money.

From the age of 14 I babysat 2 children and would take them out for the day. They were 2 and 4!!!!

This was all before mobile phones!

Yanbu imo to think a 12yo can reasonably collect a 9yo and agree that rules are becoming too restrictive and it's preventing a lot of families from functioning.

And in my case it wasn't due to single parents etc. all parents in my example were teachers and they had no problem with it

I think its a pretty standard policy. I think your only 'mistake' is being honest about it and upfront.

Siblings unofficially do pick up at our large primary either
Inside the playground or outside of the gate. But they need to hang back a bit and blend in with the parents so they arent too noticeable.

Only the first 2-3 years of kids do the thing when the teacher has to make eye contact with the parent. Later in the age groups kids just walk out. Or could probably shout 'bye miss i see aunty mary see you tomorrow' and the teacher wouldnt know otherwise.

YANBU at all. My 10 and 8 year old walk to and from school together and are sometimes home alone for a little while.

Sometimes there’s just no choice. Parents have to work and families need to work together to get along as best they can.

My son walked to and from school alone in Year 5. The thing is, it isn't illegal or irresponsible for a 9 year old to walk alone for a short amount of time so how can this be an enforced policy if you've given permission?

Hmm - no. I won’t be relying on my 12 yr old as he needs to do his own thing. This is as a one off.

my babysitter who I pay £40 a pop to will be back after half term and knows she’s with me until at least end of academic year. I’ll probably ask her to do a few days a week next academic year so the kids have someone there when they get home to do their homework with etc.

I’ve very much got my shit together, and if no one ever ‘bitches’ - nothing ever changes. As many on this thread show, lots of children across the country (never mind the Scottish!) can walk home alone aged 9. If my youngest’s school allowed this we wouldn’t be in this position.

I don’t think you are being unreasonable. I know schools are so tight with their rules. Which often does not take into account the challenges for working parents and single parents.

Schools are ridiculous these days. My DDs primary school has a rule where children could only walk to and from school alone in year 6. I have a few friends with multiple children in one school (e.g. one in nursery, year 3 and year 5). These parents would walk to the gates with their multiple children, prioritise walking the youngest to their classrooms and the year 5 teachers would call them up to say “we didn’t see you at the gate this morning - you are neglecting your child and we are worried” blah blah blah.

Slightly different to your scenario but it just shows that many schools are stricter when it comes to pick up and drop off - most likely for safeguarding. But there needs to be a way around this and I think 9 and 12 alone for 45 minutes isn’t too bad.

I would be embarrassed if my 12 year old couldn’t look after their nine year old brother.

DT’s got the tube to and from school on their own from 11 onwards and occasionally the final year in primary.
We need to be giving children more responsibility not less.

The NSPCC recommendations state "6-12 is usually too young to walk home alone" (never mind looking after a younger sibling!!).
Also "we recommend leaving children under 12 with a friend or neighbour", instead of having them home alone.

Although considered perfectly safe in other countries? Why can’t UK children manage?

OP, hopefully a practical suggestion…
I’m a teacher (in Scotland so possibly different) and I would suggest you ask the school to look at this on an individual basis, face to face if you can.

outline what you’ve done here.
Your personal circumstances, your knowledge of your children and their capabilities. Bypass office staff and CT as they will have to just read you the policy. Go straight to the personal with pastoral responsibility or HT.

In reality we all know SS aren’t going to touch this. The school policy isn’t enforceable but at the same time they don’t want to be seen to be breaching their policy. You have to what you need to do to work and support your children.

Haveva face to face with the school and you’ll reach a consensus in your favour. A bit like SS, schools don’t want to waste time on this so somethings just reinstating the policy is the easiest way of dealing with it in the first instance. This doesn’t mean there isn’t a better way or that it’s appropriate for all children/families.

NSPCC is catering to the lowest common demoninator. Hence the use of the word "usually".

A sensible child at the top end of that range is quite capable of walking home with a younger sibling and the reality is the only people who know just how sensible or otherwise that child is are the parents.

(Bear in mind that under NSPCC guidelines parents should be lovingly shepherding and collecting their offspring to and from secondary school in year 7!)

YABU - both of your children are YOUR responsibility. You chose to have two children and yes life may not work out how we plan but it’s your job to work a way around it that doesn’t put too much pressure on your 12 year old who is neither an adult or your other DC child. Stop using your one child to parent the other and sort it out. School policy is school policy and whether parents like it or not when you enrol your children at a school it means you will adhere to their policies. Sick and fed up of hearing about parents bleating about how “unfair” school policies are when they are there for the best interest of the children just because it doesn’t work for their own personal circumstances.

I agree its a specifically middle class view point. Both upper and working classes tend toward more self reliance based on the needs and the level of the child (rather than following an arbitrary number issued by an organisation which has never met your child).

That must come as a shock to the parents of Y7s most of whom make their own way to secondary school independently age 11.

If you want to keep your kids helplessly infantilised do so. Doesn't make the rest if us negligent for letting ours grow up.

@Bigroundpear I think you sound very sensible, and your children both sound great. I'd say your risk assessment is spot on in your specific location and situation.

People who say you're using the 12 yr old as a substitute parent are laughable.

The NSPCC employs men who make rubber fetish videos so wouldn’t be trusting their judgement over a child’s competent parent.

I think the OP sounds like a great parent who might turn out some decent/responsible humans into the world.

When did being part of a family and helping each other out become a big deal? I’d be embarrassed if my 12 year old couldn’t look after a younger brother for a very short period of time or prepare the evening meal. No wonder so many teenagers and young adults are so useless.

For the most part yeah, though my DD's school in Finland, the last part of the journey doesn't even have pavements (quite a lot of roads in my town don't have pavements, in the older residential areas) so the children have to walk on the road which isn't the safest thing. But people that drive there know that children will be walking so drive slowly and carefully.

They do too much for their age let them enjoy their very fleeting childhood!!

my daughter 16 never did any of that and is extremely responsible, she is well mannered and she is excelling in sixth form and has a job along side that! My other children are coming up the exact same way, Childhood is just so brief