To insist my 12-yr old collects nine-yr old from school

[Bigroundpear]

My nine-year-old is in year 5 at a small inner-city state primary a five minute walk from home. School policy is for children to only be able to walk home alone from year 6 which I fully accept (though I don't particularly agree with it).

Last week I let the school know that my 12-year old (who is in secondary school and travelled alone from year 5 for 40 mins each way - different school) would be collecting nine-year-old from school today. School emailed back to refuse because their policy is siblings who collect must be over 14.

I emailed back to say I will be exercising my parental responsibility, that it's up to me what happens to my child outside of school and I will not be there to collect, but my oldest child will. My kids have done this same journey alone together often (school is next to a supermarket they visit together frequently), I have risk-assessed this and feel confident that though of course there are risks, everything that needs to be is in place to prevent them coming to harm. I have prepared both kids for all eventualities with the school today, including that they may call social services (not bothered about this, know SS won't do anything).

I think the school is over stepping the mark, and should release my nine-year-old, however I'm sad I have put office staff in this position.

AIBU?

Where I live, 12 yr olds are legal babysitting age.

children can walk home from school in grade 3 (8yr old)

yall are doing some serious coddling.

I teach in a primary school.

I am 100% with you; the school is being unreasonable.

I'm surprised that someone with your work history is happy to do this. A 12 year old is too young to be responsible for a 9 year. What if something really basic happens - like they have a row?

I only let my eldest two come home on their own together when they were 11 and 13. They are perfectly well-adjusted, independent adults now. They have lived away from home in various locations, are graduates, one in a professional role now, the other about to study in Europe again for a year. I also took the summers off for a few years under a flexible working policy to ensure they didn't spend all summer home alone when they were too old for childcare.

The youngest one was able then to come home with one or other of the older two, from the age of 11.

You have no idea what emergency they might encounter. Eldest DC is a teacher, and today there was a vicious fight between 2 11 year old girls, involving blood, and hair pulled out. DC then had the deal with a hyperventilating 11 year old who had a panic attack after witnessing it.

You do you, but I would not be content with this arrangement. You seem more keen on getting one up on the school than the actual safety of your children,

My kids now in secondary but their primary allowed from year 5 and from year 4 with a year 5 or 6 sibling. My DC walked home together in year 4 and 6. Very odd to not “allow”

I think it massively depends on your children's personalities and you know them best.

If you know that your kids get along together and the older one isn't phased by it I don't think this is in anyway unsuitable. My oldest has often looked out for the younger ones including occasional school pick ups and meal and snack prep.

I think they liked the responsibly and the opportunity to eat a few extra biscuits. I think it's nice when a family feels like a team. If you feel bad you could offer a financial reward for pick ups etc but I would rather just say thanks and reward everyone for a job well done. The good arrangement also depends on the younger child playing ball too.

I feel like this used to be pretty common when I was a kid. As long as the 12 year old is ok with being relied upon and isn't resentful that they don't get to hang out with their friends instead.

Where I live we have first, middle and high schools. First school is YrR-Yr 4 and in their last term of yr 4 the children are encouraged to walk to and from school independently. Middle school no one checks if they are picked up or not. So 9 yr olds go to and from school on their own and not one thinks anything of it. Provided the 12 yr old is happy to pick up their sibling and you are sure there won’t be any problem with this then I think the school’s policy is ridiculous. You know your children best. Don’t tell anyone but my twins went regularly to the shops for me on their own from age 8. They walked too and from school independently aged 9 onwards and could let themselves into the house if I was delayed and not home before them. They are now at uni and are far more resilient than many of their peer groups. They are happy to do things independently . They know how to keep themselves safe and to risk assess situations but do not see danger round every corner like many of their friends do. Children cannot build up resilience and confidence in their own decision making if they are not given the chance to build up independence. Every child is ready for independence at different stages and the parent is the best one to judge when their child is ready.

YANBU. They have something similar at our primary. My 11yo DD wants to pick up my Y5 9yo dd, and it's not allowed as she's not 14.

However, they are allowed to walk home from Y4, so DD2 can walk to the corner and meet DD1 there!

I'm glad the school accepted your preference. Your sons sound very independent and responsible.

I agree with you OP, they are tall enough and mature enough to navigate a safe environment. I used to go to school on my own at 5, I would not do that with my kids today. We live in another world. Year 5 is a good year to start going to school on your own in my honest opinion.

At our school year 5s are allowed to leave as long as the parent has given permission.. they also state that each child is different and some will be ready and others will need more time. It really depends on their maturity and on how sensible they both are. My year 5 walks home - 10 min walk on quiet roads and is loving the responsibility.

I agree with the previous posters who suggest it’s maybe too much putting the responsibility onto the older child. As I child I had to look at younger children often, at home, collect from school etc zero choice just had to do it. I was extremely anxious inside , would be very very worried what if anything happens etc as one of the younger kids usually had a tantrum and I was left dealing with it. I would have loved for anyone to consider is this too much responsibility for me. I know you say your older child doesn’t mind but check in how they are feeling , do they actually not mind/take it in their stride or perhaps Afraid to say no as they already understand that they in some way have to take on this role to help you out, as there is no other option and that is expected of them. As you’ll well know from your own experience as a social worker sometimes children take on A lot more than they should for their age and feel a responsibility for a parent as they are made responsible to support this parent in the way another adult/ partner would. This can impact now they feel about themself and whether they Continue this role into adulthood putting their own needs/ wishes aside. Despite me saying all of that from your description you describe like your older child is comfortable but worth checking in all the same.

Not all that long ago there was the uplifting story of the 13 year old who kept her 4 siblings alive in the columbian jungle for 40 days following the plane crash that killed everyone else on board including their mother.

That young woman/girl (as you prefer) should have refused to accept the responsibility of looking after her siblings. It was an unfair burden to place on her young shoulders.

Like bollox would they.

I’m with you op, you know your kids. It’s three times and it’s for a short period of time. It’s not indefinite. I think it’s totally fine.

my son is year 7 and if I’m stuck he picks his 8 yo sister from primary on the way home and they walk the 0.5 mile home together. He is delighted when I ask him to do this because he feels quite grown up. I only ever ask him if I’m really stuck because he does sometimes walk home with friends but at the moment it’s a novelty to be the high schooler allowed to pick up a younger sibling. I feel it’s teaching him responsibility and I’m hardly asking him to babysit all night so it’s not putting too much on him.

I think 12 is too young to expect him to collect the sibling and look after them for an hour. I think 14 is about right For babysitting siblings. It’s all ok until it not.. because kids do silly things, even the sensible ones. That’s why they’re not adults until 16/18! A one off emergency is one thing but with notice I’d make other plans

This is policy in our school as well. The collecting child must be 14+. I watched them refuse a 13yo try to pick up their sibling.

Don't be ridiculous!! It's not in any way comparable!!

this is what i wonder about.
when why did it change here?
when i started school age 5, i walked to and fro alone after the first day, as did everyone else.
some might have tagged along with others if they happened to be going the same way.
i remember going home for lunch for a while, again alone.
i think we were all much more street aware in those days.
just think, even as an adult, if you go with someone to a place they know but new to you, you take less notice of how you got there.
you let them lead, but are quite capable of achieving the task.

In most European countries it's normal for children to walk home by themselves from a much younger age. In Switzerland, it's one of the reasons why primary school doesn't start before 6: school age children are expected to be able to walk home by themselves. Even in the cities. Literally none of my Swiss friends ever pick up their children from school (most of them are in the centre of Zurich). That would be seen as very strange, and stifling the children's independence.

Depending on the area, of course I wouldn't do / allow this in the UK, but a 9-year-old walking home with a 12-year-old sibling is a no-brainer for me. It's none of the school's business whether there is an adult at home or not. They're not Social Services and shouldn't act as if they were.

That's not up to the school to police though!

I was that child going on my own to and from school from age of six (central Europe, our Y1). We had the after-school program at school, my mum just wrote "Today, Date, Ziri leaves alone at Time, thanks Signature" to a small notebook used for parents& school communication and the club let me leave in the given time.

Congratulations OP to standing your ground.

DC1 went to school with one of their classmates who lives round the corner in Year 5 and they took DD2 who was then in year 3. This was on the bus in London. THe issue was that all 3 were really sensible had been doing the journey for years and had a list of contingencies that had been discussed in advance where they knew what to do if.......

Stick to your guns OP - the infantilising of children these days is quite ridiculous.

@Bigroundpear In no way a criticism but just wanted to add my experience of also in my opinion, being given too much independence too early.

I could cook a roast dinner to a very good standard by myself aged 10. I washed up every night and various other chores from 6. I washed my own school uniform and ironed it... made my own pack lunches from 8 years old.

I am street smart. I have common sense. But I always have a sense of sadness that I was never 'looked after' or how my friends were treated as children. For example, small things, my friends mum used to tie her hair up before school - plaits etc. Even a normal ponytail. I was always so envious if that kind of care.

In my 20's the same parents care for their children - cooking meals when visiting etc and small acts of kindness... like buying mascara or clothes when at uni and skint.

In my 30's the parents are wonderful grandparents. My mother tells me "I've served my time" and barely sees them but throws money at them.

I just feel like children are only little once. It's a wonderful time of life which should be burden free. They have enough with growing pains etc.

Of course they need independence but at the right stages. I feel picking up a sibling at 12 is fine BTW - I'm talking more in other areas.

My friends are all extremely successful and secure adults - A&E doctors, lawyers, on great trajectory in the big4 etc. Not burdening children too young does not mean they will become layabouts.

I hope you win your case!

I was just going to say I witnessed this very scenario. I was walking home after picking up Ds from nursery. We were walking down a main road. Just ahead of us on the other side of the road I heard a bang. Then a bus swerving all over the road. I didn't realise what had happened.

Then noticed on the other side of the road some people running out of nearby offices. There was a girl about 12 looking panicked and a child in the road. I never went and checked he was ok they had people helping them I'm sure they didn't want people gawking.

I read in the paper a few days later the child was a 7 year old boy. Walking home from school with his sister he had seen his friend on the other side of the road and just stepped out in front of the bus. He was lucky he got away with a broken arm, broken, collar bone and fractured skull.

I think you are right. And anyway if there is no-one else to pick your child up what is the school proposing? Are they prepared to get a member of staff to escort your child home? I think not.

I also think it's very unfair to put a parent in this position and to suggest that this is a matter for social services. Social services have many serious issues of neglect and abuse to deal with, and reports suggest they are absolutely run off their feet trying to cope. It is ridiculous to suggest that this matter might be considered by social services to fall within their remit.
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