One-state solution ?

[Trianglesandcircles1]

Why does it seem like all the mainstream western politicians assume that the only acceptable solution for Palestine/Israel is a two-state solution?

Surely it would be better to have one state, controlled and run by the UN for at least 50 years before slow transition to democracy, with a completely secular constitution, i.e. total separation of religion and state. Then everyone could have religious freedom.

It should be called neither Israel nor Palestine. I suggest "The Holy Land" as the official name.

Why is a suggesting a one-state solution so frowned upon?

@Schoolappeal1 I agree with you - the Israeli government has undoubtedly committed, and is continuing to commit, illegal barbaric acts. But my main point still stands - the actions of the Israeli government should not mean that murders of Israeli civilians are viewed as any less of a crime than the murder of anyone else.

Do you honestly think if UK civilians were murdered and the murderers justified it by (truthfully) saying that the UK government’s policies relating disabled people were inhumane and illegal, people would think that was okay?

Surely a basic tenet of society is that you can’t justify killing someone because you disagree with their government’s policy.

You said 'opinion polls posted on here' - MN is social media.
And I didn't say trust my family and friends. I listed numerous respected, impartial sources that contradict the polls that you said were shared on here. If you want to rely on 'opinion polls' that is your choice. It's one I consider disrespectful considering the seriousness of the conflict. It also means I won't engage with you further. This thread had been relatively thoughtful, I'm not going to argue with you or derail this thread.

Historically Palestinians had always shared with Christians and other Jews. They continue to share with Christians.

There are Christian Palestinians you know. I've met them. In Jordan. They had to flee Palestine in 1948. Lovely people.

I also worked on a kibbutz in the 1970's. Had a great time.

It breaks my heart what is happening at the moment.

Do you really think the UK would sit back and watch 2.2 million people, 1 million of them children be locked up in a small slither of Wales for instance? Do you honestly think everyone would just go to work, have dinner parties, live jolly old lives while the disabled people were caged up next door.

When the country I live in was denying women their human rights do you know what we did? We took to the streets, we shouted and shouted until someone listened. It took years but finally we were listened to women have access to safe, legal abortion. Do I think the same people that did this, the same people that yelled and yelled and yelled for safe access to abortion would sit back and let 2.2million people be caged in Leitrim? That we would witness apartheid. That we would witness crimes against humanity and go about our days? In 2023 do you think this would happen?

The vast, vast majority of people do not think that the murders in Israel was OK. They also do not think that what Israel is doing and continues to do to palestian is OK. It needs to end. All of it. All if the murder. All of the cruelty. All of it.

I think the biggest problem with the one-state solution is that it is an authoritarian dictatorship.

That kind of power corrupts. People suffer under a dictatorship. Basic human rights are destroyed, removed, abused under an authoritarian dictatorship.

It is not a solution. It is creating another kind of hell on earth.

I think they need to put the women in charge and let them have a go at resolving the conflict. Men have not served their states well so far....

I don’t really understand why non-western views don’t matter. I’m in Canada, and there’s a small but growing moment calling for the return of vast swathes of the land currently comprising Canada to the respective First Nations people.

Currently, these calls do not involve displacing settlers (like myself) but would mean that the various indigenous groups would have sovereignty over the relevant territories, and potentially declare statehood, independent from Canada.

I struggle to see these calls ever becoming entirely mainstream as is but think that would be particularly the case if the demand involved the forced removal of non-indigenous Canadians from large areas of the country in order to create states that had ethnic majorities of First Nations people.

Presumably though, if Israel has ‘the right to exist’ then any proposed ethnic-majority First Nations states have that same right, if they choose to assert it?

Were you also in favour of a UN administration for pre-Good Friday Agreement Northern Ireland? If not, then with all due respect OP, you are indeed being anti-semitic. Are you seriously proposing abolishing the only functioning (albeit flawed) democracy in the region in favour of a regime of externally legitimated technocrats? The mind boggles.

It may have passed you by, but throughout the 1970s and 80s English people were indeed regularly blown up by terrorists because of their government’s policies on Northern Ireland.

At no stage did anyone dream of depriving the nationalist areas of Belfast, Derry, etc of water, electricity or food, or firing missiles to blow up residential blocks. Even though there were definitely terrorists hiding out among the civilian population in those areas.

Don’t get me wrong, some very bad things were done in the name of the British state to innocent people in Northern Ireland. But no way was it as extreme as what the Israeli state is doing in Gaza.

Because neither side would ever agree to it. Israel is specifically a Jewish state - that was the goal - a safe homeland for all Jews. So even if they were reassured that the Palestinians wouldn’t just try to kill them it wouldn’t be a goer. Also would you be giving right of return to the Palestinian refugees because Israeli’s would need to be kicked out of their current homes - homes that they’ve lived in since 1948 …obviously very difficult. You could say that there is a one state solution in place right now with Israel occupying the Palestinian Territories and it’s not going well.

I completely know what you mean. In an ideal world the Palestinian’ and Israeli’s would live and prosper together in happiness and peace. But it’s not a solution that would ever be agreed on. The best solution is a realistic one which could be achieved.

So can’t kick Israelis out of their homes…homes they’ve lived in since 1948…some however have migrated from the states or Europe even as recently as this year…that would be unethical. But to create Jewish state Palestinians were not only made to be refugees, but murdered and jailed. That’s ethical?

Explain to me how this is anti semitic? Unworkable. Not agreeable to either side? Definitely anti-Zionist but how is it anti semitic?

Palestine was a beautiful successful middle eastern country. Do you really think Palestinians will give it up?

And why should they? They are the indigenous of the land. Regardlesss of what your holy book says .

I really don't understand why it is important to a religious person, or a person of a particular ethnicity, to live in a state governed by and for that religion or ethnicity.

Have you SERIOUSLY never heard of The Holocaust?!

No idea what your talking about but try and answer this quiz:

Oh good, that’s what the debate needs, reductive ‘funny’ memes.

The very short answer is: you don't need your own state if you live within a country with a legal framework that protects equality of all citizens equally.

No such state does, or has ever, existed in the middle east. And I am middle eastern :)

I think you might be minimising a bit here OP.

In Europe, we were not just "expelled" we lived in atrocious conditions and were frequently murdered through our entire history.

In Persia and what later became the middle east, we lived with basically no rights and were routinely massacred at the drop of a hat.

Jews were never, in the course of history, ever, permitted to live anywhere without seriously diminished rights vs the majority population, and constant threat of expulsion and death.

My family, for example, were Jewish, living in Iraq and long before Israel existed were required to live in ghettos, defer to their Muslim masters, had rocks thrown at them in the street and had to wear yellow stars just to name a few highlights. They left in 1941 when the Farhoud happenned and we were lynched in the street. There were Muslims entering homes and murdering women, chopping off their breasts and parading the streets.

So that's why.

Quick answer to the concept of a "one state solution"

In order for a multicultural society to exist, there has to be laws and measures in place in keeping with a western democracy. Otherwise the minority (the Jews) will be treated very poorly and perhaps even killed. Such was the case for 600 years.

Democracy, equal rights, humans rights enshrined in law, secular legal systems and governments are all entirely western concepts and so you'd have to persuade the arab muslims of palestine that they wanted to live like we do.

You'd also have to persuade them to allow acceptance of certain things like homosexuality and so on as well as very different cultural norms - such as women having certain rights,

All of the above is highly unlikely - there are no Arab nations which embrace these ideas- it is just not their way of doing things, and you'd be asking people to completely change their way of life, culture and beliefs.

Even if you could do that, the idea that the UN or some western force would dominate over them and rule their lands with their blessing is absolutely crazy. They would never accept that. The Arab league already won't accept the existence is Israel as they've said it's rule over land they consider Islamic territory.

So there has to be two countries

Can you understand why Jewish people, genocided and enslaved and discriminated against, for 4000 years - almost wiped out - may need a homeland to keep them safe?

Because Palestine never accepted that , they won’t even accept a 2 state solution .