Page 16 | There is no Southern Ireland

Needeyebrows · 2023-10-13T20:34:43+00:00

So sick of hearing people say say Southern Ireland when referring to anywhere outside of Northern Ireland. Any place outside of Northern is the Republic of Ireland. We do not have southern Ireland..

MeinKraft · 14/10/2023 18:27

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 14/10/2023 17:50

I'm a languages teacher, and I must confess I find it hard to understand how calling a country by the name it's known by in the country's language, or missing off an accent, can be that offensive. I doubt the Spanish would take huge offense if someone wrote 'I went to Espana'. They'd just notice that it was misspelt.

It matters in the context of the history of the word, and the history of relations between Ireland and Britain, and the attitude some Brits have towards Ireland. As a languages teacher surely you know that sometimes a word is not just a word.

toadasoda · 14/10/2023 18:40

Evaka · 14/10/2023 08:49

Many of my 20 something, highly educated colleagues don't even realise Ireland isn't part of Britain. I'm Irish working in London and have had to correct SO many of them on stinkers such as referring to Dublin as a city in the UK, not knowing Ireland has the euro and asking me why I wasn't coming to the pub to cheer on England in a euros game. Fucking christ.

Its not just these days either. In the late 1990s I moved to Dublin (from a county in the south of the country) and worked in a branch of a UK company. We received and made calls daily from and to other branches and quite often, maybe once a week someone would cheerily ask us 'how are things in Southern Ireland' or 'I'm calling from the Mainland'. Every time it caused upset, some people rolled their eyes, but some especially those from border areas were angered by it because they believed it was a politically loaded term. I remember constantly telling everyone 'They didn't mean it! They don't understand'. The cheery person from UK probably couldn't fathom the frosty Irish response. That was 1998 and 1999, right in the middle of the peace process, the time of the GFA and the horrific Omagh bombing. I could not and still cannot believe that they didn't know. I admit i know F all about the ins and outs of NI politics but to not know the borders of your own country???? Mind boggling.

Stupidliefromfriend · 14/10/2023 18:55

Ekdjt · 13/10/2023 22:10

We call it Ireland or when talking about it in relation to family in NI we will refer to it as "the republic".

What I find really weird is the amount of people who think the entire island of Ireland is part of the UK and have literally not believed me on occasion when I have said that ROI is an independent country with its own judiciary, parliament, etc. Was at an event once where people were surprised that there is a separate national anthem - they thought it was God Save The Queen!

I hope you have not stayed in contact with these pricks.

eggandonion · 14/10/2023 19:26

Time out for the rugby...the aforementioned four proud protestants standing firm together.

ColleenDonaghy · 14/10/2023 19:32

eggandonion · 14/10/2023 19:26

Time out for the rugby...the aforementioned four proud protestants standing firm together.

Could you send that message to my 5yo. Have a horrible feeling bedtime is going to cost be most of the first half.

eggandonion · 14/10/2023 19:36

My 5 year olds would have stayed up and shouted along.

AInightingale · 14/10/2023 19:40

ColleenDonaghy · 14/10/2023 17:32

Also while the role of Taoiseach is very similar to the role of the PM in the UK, it doesn't translate as prime minister. It's chieftain or something like that isn't it?

Yes. De Valera's idea. I don't think many people argued with him...

I quite like it though. I like the idea of countries having their little distinctions like that, the way the Scots call their poet laureate 'makar'.

ColleenDonaghy · 14/10/2023 20:05

eggandonion · 14/10/2023 19:36

My 5 year olds would have stayed up and shouted along.

Not a hope! Wine and Thai food on the agenda.

Not to mention the inevitable day long emotional breakdown tomorrow if she stayed up late.

Shopgirl1 · 14/10/2023 20:05

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 14/10/2023 17:50

I'm a languages teacher, and I must confess I find it hard to understand how calling a country by the name it's known by in the country's language, or missing off an accent, can be that offensive. I doubt the Spanish would take huge offense if someone wrote 'I went to Espana'. They'd just notice that it was misspelt.

Wow, as a language teacher you should understand this. I hope you are teaching your students to use accents correctly. You mention Spanish so presuming you teach Spanish an example of how an accent can change meaning would be ingles meaning groins v Inglés meaning English.

eggandonion · 14/10/2023 20:07

My dd2 was 5 during the saipan fiasco. She had a giant inflatable hammer. Happy Days!
Enjoy the Thai food.

Splitscreened · 14/10/2023 20:09

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 14/10/2023 17:50

I'm a languages teacher, and I must confess I find it hard to understand how calling a country by the name it's known by in the country's language, or missing off an accent, can be that offensive. I doubt the Spanish would take huge offense if someone wrote 'I went to Espana'. They'd just notice that it was misspelt.

Why Éire (or Eire) has traditionally been a political put-down has been explained on the thread. Maybe work on your comprehension skills.

It is in no way equivalent to using ‘España’, or even ‘Espana’ for Spain when speaking English.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 14/10/2023 20:11

Wow, as a language teacher you should understand this. I hope you are teaching your students to use accents correctly. You mention Spanish so presuming you teach Spanish an example of how an accent can change meaning would be ingles meaning groins v Inglés meaning English.

I don't think you have remotely understood what I said. Of course I teach my students to use accents correctly. What I don't teach my students is that making mistakes in a foreign language is awful and offensive. It is, in fact, perfectly normal and ok to make mistakes, even in your own language.

Mooshamoo · 14/10/2023 20:12

Shopgirl1 · 14/10/2023 20:05

Wow, as a language teacher you should understand this. I hope you are teaching your students to use accents correctly. You mention Spanish so presuming you teach Spanish an example of how an accent can change meaning would be ingles meaning groins v Inglés meaning English.

Show quote history

You're missing the point. She is teaching them to use the accents correctly. She is saying that if people make a mistake in Spanish and get it wrong, no one gets offended.

Its a mistake. People understand that people make mistakes.

I remember someone saying one time that the Irish seem to be perpetually offended by everything.

Dont say am Irish name correctly - offended.
Say southern Ireland by mistake - offended.
Dont put a fada in the correct place - offended.

I think sometimes we need to see that people make mistakes.

Shopgirl1 · 14/10/2023 20:13

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 14/10/2023 20:11

Wow, as a language teacher you should understand this. I hope you are teaching your students to use accents correctly. You mention Spanish so presuming you teach Spanish an example of how an accent can change meaning would be ingles meaning groins v Inglés meaning English.

I don't think you have remotely understood what I said. Of course I teach my students to use accents correctly. What I don't teach my students is that making mistakes in a foreign language is awful and offensive. It is, in fact, perfectly normal and ok to make mistakes, even in your own language.

I understood exactly what you said.
It’s acceptable to make mistakes as a language learner, but that’s not what we are talking about here.

Winter42 · 14/10/2023 20:14

My dad is Irish, from just South of the border and he says he is from Southern Ireland.

Shopgirl1 · 14/10/2023 20:15

Winter42 · 14/10/2023 20:14

My dad is Irish, from just South of the border and he says he is from Southern Ireland.

That’s interesting. Where does he live now and how long has he lived there?

JaneJeffer · 14/10/2023 20:15

Ireland has left the chat 🏉

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 14/10/2023 20:17

You're missing the point. She is teaching them to use the accents correctly. She is saying that if people make a mistake in Spanish and get it wrong, no one gets offended.

Thank you. It's the assumption that people must be deliberately getting things wrong in order to cause offence that I find sad. And the extreme vitriol when there are gaps in people's knowledge about certain things. I guess I'm used to teaching people things without getting angry that they didn't already know them.

Splitscreened · 14/10/2023 20:19

JaneJeffer · 14/10/2023 20:15

Ireland has left the chat 🏉

Apart from the non-rugby types. We do exist.😀

Shopgirl1 · 14/10/2023 20:19

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 14/10/2023 20:17

You're missing the point. She is teaching them to use the accents correctly. She is saying that if people make a mistake in Spanish and get it wrong, no one gets offended.

Thank you. It's the assumption that people must be deliberately getting things wrong in order to cause offence that I find sad. And the extreme vitriol when there are gaps in people's knowledge about certain things. I guess I'm used to teaching people things without getting angry that they didn't already know them.

That’s not what you said though. Despite it all being explained on this thread, you said you still cannot understand why it causes an issue.

Splitscreened · 14/10/2023 20:20

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 14/10/2023 20:17

You're missing the point. She is teaching them to use the accents correctly. She is saying that if people make a mistake in Spanish and get it wrong, no one gets offended.

Thank you. It's the assumption that people must be deliberately getting things wrong in order to cause offence that I find sad. And the extreme vitriol when there are gaps in people's knowledge about certain things. I guess I'm used to teaching people things without getting angry that they didn't already know them.

You are being offensively ignorant. This isn’t a language error, like using an incorrect verb conjugation.

Mooshamoo · 14/10/2023 20:26

Splitscreened · 14/10/2023 20:20

You are being offensively ignorant. This isn’t a language error, like using an incorrect verb conjugation.

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She is not being offensively ignorant. I think you are being a bit ridiculous.

She is a language teacher and she is saying that everyone makes language mistakes.

No one is writing Eire to offend anyone.
They are writing it like that because they are making a mistake.

Everyone makes mistakes when using a second language.

Did you learn French/German in school.

Did you write every word perfectly?

Then don't expect everyone to be able to write Irish perfectly.

JaneJeffer · 14/10/2023 20:29

Shh @Splitscreened we need a breather

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 14/10/2023 20:29

I understood exactly what you said.
It’s acceptable to make mistakes as a language learner, but that’s not what we are talking about here.

In that case I'm not sure why you were so concerned about whether I was teaching my students to use accents correctly.

All I was trying to say is that an accent mistake is hardly likely to be malicious, and that use of Eire / Éire by non-Irish people is almost certainly also ignorance/a genuine mistake. Maybe I'm wrong - maybe people do use the name to deliberately insult the Irish. It's not a name I use myself.

Shopgirl1 · 14/10/2023 20:30

Mooshamoo · 14/10/2023 20:26

She is not being offensively ignorant. I think you are being a bit ridiculous.

She is a language teacher and she is saying that everyone makes language mistakes.

No one is writing Eire to offend anyone.
They are writing it like that because they are making a mistake.

Everyone makes mistakes when using a second language.

Did you learn French/German in school.

Did you write every word perfectly?

Then don't expect everyone to be able to write Irish perfectly.

Show quote history

Why is anyone using an Irish word speaking English?
Just call Ireland Ireland when speaking English.…