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Original poster

There is no Southern Ireland

549 replies

Needeyebrows · 13/10/2023 21:34

So sick of hearing people say say Southern Ireland when referring to anywhere outside of Northern Ireland. Any place outside of Northern is the Republic of Ireland. We do not have southern Ireland..

OP posts:
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8
MeinKraft · 14/10/2023 00:38

JaneJeffer · 13/10/2023 22:21

Nobody Irish says Southern Ireland. They just don't. NI people saying the south is fine because we say the north.

Yes! Down south and the north. People from down south might say Southern Ireland when they're abroad to signify they're not from the mental bit? Couldn't blame them. (I'm from the mental bit aka Northern Ireland)

MeinKraft · 14/10/2023 00:44

Oleaginus · 14/10/2023 00:27

At the risk of offending every tray baker here, I spent some time researching tray bakes in NI ( as the Holy Grail of tray bakes), with the help of the NI WI cook book, and a few parish websites which very kindly posted recipes for the public to enjoy. To my surprise, I discovered that a significant number of tray bakes were not actually baked, but relied on various consistences of digestive / rich tea biscuits and chocolate.

Delicious though they be, really be called "tray bakes"?

<hides>

Parish websites will be no good to you. It's Protestant traybakes you're after!

Oleaginus · 14/10/2023 00:46

I meant the Protestant parishes @MeinKraft. They're a great source of recipes!

Alloveragain3 · 14/10/2023 00:48

Yep, many a Brit has asked me if I'm from "southern Ireland", which I used to find bizarre but I'm used to it now.

I'm from Ireland. Just Ireland.

LizzieAnt · 14/10/2023 00:49

Most people here (far south) tend to say 'the south of Ireland'/ 'south coast' etc rather than 'southern Ireland' in my experience @MeinKraft. Or they name the county they're from (depending on who they're talking to).
Southern Ireland isn't much used even when it has a small s.

Treesinmygarden · 14/10/2023 00:51

Many nordies when travelling abroad revert to being Irish, just so they're not categorised as being English lol! People seem to like us much better.

Also Irish when watching rugby and Irish to get a European passport post-Brexit.

And my kids, from a a background that would be considered to be from the unionist tradition (though in fact, we're in the DGAF zone), identify as Irish! Go figure!!

belleager · 14/10/2023 00:59

MeinKraft · 14/10/2023 00:38

Yes! Down south and the north. People from down south might say Southern Ireland when they're abroad to signify they're not from the mental bit? Couldn't blame them. (I'm from the mental bit aka Northern Ireland)

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Yes. When I'm in the UK I often say Southern Ireland, to go with Northern.

Ireland is obviously ambiguous. I'm from the Republic of Ireland sounds like a political manifesto. Northern or Southern is easy terminology.

Sure, you could read into it - why Southern? Why not Republic? But I don't know anyone Irish who minds this terminology.

Subtlety1985 · 14/10/2023 01:02

I’m guilty of this, I think.

Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland are on the island of Ireland. So when referring to Northern or Southern Ireland I’m thinking of the location of the Island.

I do understand that Southern Ireland is not an official name though.

BodegaSushi · 14/10/2023 01:04

I've never heard anyone say Southern Ireland, looks weird even written (I'm in London if that affects it?) I say Northern Ireland and Ireland. I might say RoI if there was confusion

LizzieAnt · 14/10/2023 01:07

@Subtlety1985 It's a bit confusing though when you think of Co Donegal, which contains the most northerly point on the island, and is in "Southern Ireland ".

LizzieAnt · 14/10/2023 01:09

But I don't know anyone Irish who minds this terminology.
But there's lots of people who mind it even on this one thread @belleager?

DownNative · 14/10/2023 01:15

oneleggedspider · 13/10/2023 22:56

I'm from Northern Ireland and we always said 'Down South' but that was in relation to where we lived.. so anywhere south of the border. Wouldn't have referred to Donegal as 'Down South.'

The problem is people using Southern Ireland as if its the name of the country. I now live in the south east of England. I'd never describe myself as living in 'Southern England.' There's a difference.

There is a difference between "Southern England" and "southern England".

The first one would be incorrect as there isn't a State called "Southern England".

The second one IS correct as it's describing whereabouts in England. So Kent is in southern England as much as Devon is. It isn't wrong and applies anywhere.

I know quote a few Nationalists and Unionists who say "Down South" for Donegal or "Over the border".

MeinKraft · 14/10/2023 01:26

Treesinmygarden · 14/10/2023 00:51

Many nordies when travelling abroad revert to being Irish, just so they're not categorised as being English lol! People seem to like us much better.

Also Irish when watching rugby and Irish to get a European passport post-Brexit.

And my kids, from a a background that would be considered to be from the unionist tradition (though in fact, we're in the DGAF zone), identify as Irish! Go figure!!

Realistically most modern unionist background and mixed families are heading this way. Hence the upsurge in alliance votes.

LizzieAnt · 14/10/2023 01:31

DownNative · 14/10/2023 01:15

There is a difference between "Southern England" and "southern England".

The first one would be incorrect as there isn't a State called "Southern England".

The second one IS correct as it's describing whereabouts in England. So Kent is in southern England as much as Devon is. It isn't wrong and applies anywhere.

I know quote a few Nationalists and Unionists who say "Down South" for Donegal or "Over the border".

Show quote history

True, but in speech you can't hear the difference between Southern and southern.
I think that's why southern Ireland isn't much used as a descriptior even by those living in the far south of the country. It avoids ambiguity.

The same sort of avoidence isn't necessary for southern England as it isn't routinely used in place of England for the name of the country.

DownNative · 14/10/2023 01:43

LizzieAnt · 14/10/2023 01:31

True, but in speech you can't hear the difference between Southern and southern.
I think that's why southern Ireland isn't much used as a descriptior even by those living in the far south of the country. It avoids ambiguity.

The same sort of avoidence isn't necessary for southern England as it isn't routinely used in place of England for the name of the country.

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You'll get the context in speech and will then know which is meant.

Personally, I use "down south", "over the border" and ROI - Disambiguation is handy.

glenleeegardens · 14/10/2023 01:48

Get a grip will ya so. I'm Scottish and if I had a pound/euro for everyone who said to me (especially abroad coz I am ginger/strawberry blond as my mam told me) "English? Dutch? German?" and when I say Scottish they glaze over. Who cares? 😂

FannyFifer · 14/10/2023 01:50

Even more annoying than the term Southern Ireland is when England is referred to as the mainland.
Trying to get something delivered to Wicklow & was told sorry we only deliver to the mainland, eh sorry what now.

Fionaville · 14/10/2023 02:12

I get why this annoys you. I do usually just say Ireland. I have found myself saying Southern Ireland at times, it just rolls off the tongue after saying Northern. And being English and talking about The North and The South a lot. Sorry OP, some of us are divs at times 🙈

TheLadyofShalott1 · 14/10/2023 02:13

My Mum was born in Dublin, but grew up in Enniskillen, my Irish Grandparents and my Mum often referred to Éire as "over the border", other than that they would usually refer to a particular place in Éire if they were talking about somewhere specific, but Éire or Ireland when not being specific.

However, and I'm sort of sorry to be "that" person, but I think there are far more important things to get het up about at the moment, and maybe it would be better for all of us if we didn't waste our energies on such things anymore. Maybe we should focus on what brings us together rather than what seperates us. Surely all around the world we should be trying to narrow any gaps, not widen them?

I am not naive, I know that bringing people together is a very uphill and often thankless task, but isn't it better than the altermative? I am not talking here about us losing our own idenities, just about us all accepting reasonable and morally fine cultures from all around the rest of this small planet. I do know that sadly a few cultures are destructive in their beliefs and behaviours, and we must call them out on it if they are making other individuals suffer, whether they are from their own culture or others.

rainbowsparkle28 · 14/10/2023 03:50

YANBU. As you say there is Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

Coffeerum · 14/10/2023 07:03

Livelovebehappy · 13/10/2023 23:07

But tbh, those same people think Cornwall is a country in its own right! The majority of people in the UK know which part of Ireland comes under the UK, but I find a lot of young people are pretty crap with Geography. I don’t think it’s taught the way it used to be.

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It’s definitely not a generational thing, just as many older people have argued with me about the setup of Ireland and do not understand what’s the UK, what is Ireland or the political structure. It’s a surprisingly high number of people that don’t understand too.

Neverinamonthofsundays · 14/10/2023 07:45

Mumofteenandtween · 13/10/2023 23:21

I have a question actually.

What is the legal nationality of people who are from Northern Ireland? I.E what is on their passport?

And is that how they define themselves?

(My mum defines herself and me and her half Welsh grandchildren as English no matter how many times I tell her that the 4 of us define ourselves as British and despite the fact that we all have British on our passports. MIL is equally determined that the kids are Welsh.)

It will depend on whether they leave the toaster on the counter or put it back in the press/cupboard.

I have to say 11 pages and has not turned into a battle. Times are changing. I was expecting to come and have a grand old read of an argument this morning but apparently the only one I am having is with the kids who did not want to get into bed last night now not wanting to get out of it.

Neverinamonthofsundays · 14/10/2023 07:45

Also I think from now on we need to refer to England as Southern Scotland.