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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel upset about my husband’s reaction to Israel/Palestine

140 replies

Tiredboymum22 · 13/10/2023 13:33

I’m a British Ashkenazi jew with family in Israel. I feel broken. Firstly, I don’t support the Netanyahu government or the ever expanding settlements in the West Bank. But obviously I support Israel’s right to exist. I feel devastated for innocent civilians on both sides.

DH is very left wing/was pro Corbyn. I always knew he supported Palestine but, so far, he has said that the BBC are right NOT to call Hamas terrorists. Asked what Israel did to trigger the attacks on Saturday. Then questioned whether the images were staged/Israeli propaganda. Also commented on a Palestinian having a “jewish nose”. Hasn’t asked about my family but has told me I’m up Israel’s arse. My mum’s friend also compared Hamas to Nelson Mandela and told her she’s shocked at her support for Israel (this was the day after the attacks).

AIBU to feel completely betrayed, depressed and alone? I feel guilty for feeling this way as I genuinely sympathise with the Palestinians and obviously I’m safe in my bed whilst many have nowhere to go, have lost loved ones, etc.

Sorry to start another thread. Just needed to vent.

OP posts:
SurprisedWithAHorse · 14/10/2023 16:28

It's really, really illuminating that so many people literally don't notice the most obvious, clichéd, antisemitic stereotype of them all if it appears during a discussion about Israel and Palestine. It's not as if it's even relevant to the situation. It's just thrown in there, serving no purpose except to reinforce nasty, ancient, ignorant antisemitic tropes for their own sake, and people literally don't see it because it's in this topic.

It's true that criticising Israel isn't antisemitic, of course, but these people clearly can't be trusted to know the difference.

underneaththeash · 14/10/2023 16:28

Corbyn is an anti-Semitic communist. What did you expect his views to be if he was a fan.

AmazingSnakeHead · 14/10/2023 16:32

That's awful OP. He is your husband and shouldn't be implying that Israel "deserved" what happened last weekend.

FedUpOfItA · 14/10/2023 16:38

I'm really sorry to hear this OP. I do think it's difficult to be with someone that thinks so differently to you and it transpiring that he has such different values. I think you need to be careful that this hatred doesn't precipitate deeper into your relationship. Just make sure you don't allow yourself to be abused by him.

WillyWonkaBlues · 14/10/2023 16:59

I’m sorry you are experiencing this. Is your husband Jewish? It doesn’t like it to me. I can take a difference of opinion but when it comes to putting down my own people, then I’d have to tell him to pack his bags. No one deserves this.

verdantverdure · 14/10/2023 17:48

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SurprisedWithAHorse · 14/10/2023 17:50

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This is amazing. A reference to a "Jewish nose" isn't disparaging or antisemitic.

No wonder Jews are terrified right now.

Imagnu1234 · 16/10/2023 20:30

I think your husband is being insensitive and has said some racist things, though I think it stems from his concern for Palestinians, which is a legitimate concern, and being in an echo chamber with others that are pro Palestine and perhaps not realising the anti-Semetic roots of some of the things he is saying.

However, I don't think this is necessarily something that can't be overcome by open honest discussion. In fact, perhaps the only hope for the Israel Palestine situation is if more moderate people can have open honest discussions!

The Jewish nose comment is definitely concerning and I would show him something that explains how it isn't just a characteristic like a Roman nose, but an anti-Semitic trope.

Of course it is very upsetting that he hasn't shown any concern for your family and how frightening it is for them, and that you are not unreasonable to identify with the trauma suffered by your family and fellow Israelis due to Hamas, and that from your point of view, understanding that is an emotional thing, it is not a comment on the rights and wrongs of the situation and to bring the rights and wrongs in is insensitive.

But I can see that from his point of view, when people say they condemn Hamas, but aren't so vocal about condemning the terrible actions by the current Israeli government and the suffering of the Palestinian people, then it can very much seem like taking sides and ignoring the suffering of the Palestinian people.

You say that you obviously don't have an issue with Israel existing. Whereas I don't disagree with your right to hold that view, I do think it isn't obvious. What is obvious to me is that when the international community, with Britain in a key role, decided to give a multicultural area to just one of the cultures that lived there, without the agreement of the other cultural groups that had lived in that area for centuries, and also agreed to settlement of that area by large numbers of people who hadn't previously lived there, it was a recipe for disaster. I absolutely disagree with anti-Semitism and any attempt to discriminate against or persecute Jewish people. But I don't think the formation of Israel was the answer. I can see the logic of a Jewish state as a refuge against antiSemitism, except that it doesn't solve antiSemitism and if anything worsens it outside of Israel. I don't believe that the Jewish people have a promised land as I am an atheist. And I can see that the whole situation is grossly unfair to the other cultural groups living in the area, who have had Zionism literally take over their lives and homes. Though I think it is more complex than that even - apparently Rory Stewart has done a thoughtful Podcast on the history of conflict in the region going back centuries , though I haven't listened to it myself yet, but you might find that useful background if you haven't already got that knowledge.

And unfortunately, such a situation tends to breed extremism - both in terms of Hamas and also the current Israeli government. I think that Hamas is anti Semetic, but I also think the current Israeli government is racist against Palestinians. I do agree that Hamas are not just freedom fighters, as David Baddiel explained in a Podcast the other day (Newscast, might be one for you and your husband to listen to together) that they have an anti-Semitic mission statement, aiming to eradicate Jewish people in the region. I didn't know that. I suspect many Corbynites probably don't know that either. I think until I knew that I might have said that 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter', as I don't believe that there are many non violent routes being left open to those who want to end the persecution of Palestine by Prime Minister Netanyahu's government. I heard on the radio today that a hostage negotiator who has worked in the region for years believes that the current situation may have been avoided if the international community had taken more interest in pursuing non violent solutions to the crisis that was building.

So I think although your husband has said some racist things, and you absolutely need to call him out on them and make it clear that it is unacceptable, I think you are both probably coming from good places. And both of you deepening your understanding and having sensitive discussion could be a very good thing.

TinyRebel · 24/10/2023 16:12

As a leftie woman who has recently spent four days in the company of fellow lefties, I can confirm from several encounters, that the Corbynista, keffiyeh and rainbow lanyarded men are the most vile, misogynistic and anti-semitic ones of the bunch. You have have a husband problem I’m afraid.

StarbucksSmarterSister · 24/10/2023 20:56

he has said that the BBC are right NOT to call Hamas terrorists. Asked what Israel did to trigger the attacks on Saturday. Then questioned whether the images were staged/Israeli propaganda. Also commented on a Palestinian having a “jewish nose”. Hasn’t asked about my family but has told me I’m up Israel’s arse.

None of that is about being pro Palestine. I know Muslims who don't say those things. I'm not Jewish but if my husband said those things, he'd be toast. I won't stomach ridiculous conspiracy theories, racism or anti semitism.

Lostcotter · 24/10/2023 21:50

TinyRebel · 24/10/2023 16:12

As a leftie woman who has recently spent four days in the company of fellow lefties, I can confirm from several encounters, that the Corbynista, keffiyeh and rainbow lanyarded men are the most vile, misogynistic and anti-semitic ones of the bunch. You have have a husband problem I’m afraid.

bit ot topic but I’m curious - why do you think they tend to be misogynists? Is this widely known?

I’m wondering because my boyfriend is a big Corbyn fan and while I wouldn’t call him misogynist he did try and talk over me recently when I was explaining why some women have reservations about trans issues. I did shut it down, but I seen it as an amber flag. And there’s some other things I’ve noticed.

Angrycat2768 · 25/10/2023 09:02

Lostcotter · 24/10/2023 21:50

bit ot topic but I’m curious - why do you think they tend to be misogynists? Is this widely known?

I’m wondering because my boyfriend is a big Corbyn fan and while I wouldn’t call him misogynist he did try and talk over me recently when I was explaining why some women have reservations about trans issues. I did shut it down, but I seen it as an amber flag. And there’s some other things I’ve noticed.

I think many misogynists are attracted to the Labour movement, and the more Hard Left element of it. The Hard Left have always been fairly misogynist. They were all concerned about the 'working man' which traditionally meant not women ( less work for the men). My DH tried to mansplain trade unionism to me a few months ago. I quickly shut him down with a list of my Politics degree, Masters in Employment Law and 10 years as a Trades Union Rep (for the place he used to work, so while we were dating, he was so disinterested in politics he didn't realise his own girlfriend was his Trades Union rep!)

SurprisedWithAHorse · 25/10/2023 09:22

They're not far different from hard right men. Both think in moral absolutes, both think they're always right and both give greater weight to men's views. What's that saying? The right thinks women are private property, the left thinks women are public property.

Mother444 · 10/11/2023 20:04

Hi @Tiredboymum22 . Your post has really interested me because I’m in a similar situation but the other way around. It’s given me an insight into how my husband might be feeling about being married to me!

I’m married to an ashkenazi Jewish man. I have always been pro-Palestine, and “a leftie”. I find the settler occupation in the West Bank deplorable, and the open air prison of Gaza dehumanizing. I felt that Israel needed to be sanctioned by the international community if those situations were ever to be resolved for Palistinians. That was before October 7. I am a human being with a heart, and so cannot do anything other than condemn the attacks by Hamas on Jewish civilians. It was horrific, peaceful innocent people were brutally murdered.

However, I’m finding my husbands difficulty with condemning Israel hard to deal with. In my view, the massacre of civilians in Gaza is not justified. We have agreed to not discuss it, as we both end up hurting each other when we do. He thinks the civilian death in Gaza is unavoidable, I think it’s a calculated massacre. I have not said anything like your husbands comments about Jewish noses as obviously that’s racist and I really am not at all against Jewish people.

I feel like we are on such opposite sides of something which seems so obvious to me. Obviously bombing children is wrong? I’m only 1 year into my marriage, but I also have a 6 month old. I really don’t want to divorce or end it.

Not sure how to proceed.

kirbykirby · 10/11/2023 20:17

I wonder if he also supported the terrorists of 7/7 or the Ariana Grande concert massacre as a protest against British colonialism?

He sounds deranged and racist.

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