To think we need to speak up

[BigBillyButterBollocks]

Loud. Fast.

I don't want to turn it into a Hamas is responsible/Israel is responsible. I don't want to turn it into a debate.

It takes 3 to 5 days to die from dehydration. Probably less for babies. Being stuck with 2 million people also desperate for water is gonna turn ugly. Then there are the bombings, no food, the lack of medical supplies.

When a journalist asked if the electricity cuts would impact babies in incubators, he was shamed for supporting Hamas beheading babies.

When a journalist asked if the siege was a war crime, the impact on civilians and why did all politicians present the attack as Islamist attack against Jews without any context about the Palestinian cause, he was shamed for supporting Hamas and the atrocities that happened.

When a journalist asked if the siege was legal, that labour lady whose name escapes me kept on repeating a rehearsed message of "Israel has the right to defend himself".

They all seem to have gotten a memo that you deflect any question with shaming and bringing up the atrocities against Israeli children.

Atrocities happened in Israel. It sickens me and saddens me deeply. There is no excuse for it. But it can't be used to avoid talking about what is happening in Gaza. I feel we are being gaslighted into not asking questions.

I want to believe they are secretely working on a deal but I don't think they are. And time is not on Gaza's civilians side.

AIBU to think we should be making a lot of noise for our politicians to stop defending the Gaza siege and start speaking up about this? NOW. Not in 3/5/10 days?

It is haunting me at the moment. I can't focus at work, I can't sleep. What the fuck are we letting happen?

The Palestinians elected a government whose stated aim from the start was to annihilate Jews in the holy land. Surprisingly no elections have happened since.

Maybe we should have sent aid over to Nazi Germany rather than fighting them.

Of course not. Hamas have never had “free rein” to murder, although the Israel government is having free rein to murder Palestinians right now.

What the international community should do is a matter for the UN Security Council to decide after a cease fire.

Hamas isn’t a government and their stated aim is not to “wipe out Jews from the Holy Land”. They also have not rejected every compromise. In fact they have proposed the two state solution for decades and Israel’s Netanyahu has steadfastly refused to consider it since 2015 when he backtracked on agreeing to it with Obama.

What is Israels end game? They keep repeating the mantra we must protect our citizens and defend our borders, but they're doing the complete opposite, surely by retaliating in this way they are putting them at even more risk. It is a time for calm heads, regroup, use the world class intelligence you have to find the top key players in Hamas and take them out. Bombing Gaza in this way is just a recruitment drive for Hamas. It is so futile and in the middle of it are dead and starving innocent children

@Festivfrenzy

Supporting genocide is not a normal response to feeling desperate and powerless.

In 2013, 40% of Palestinian muslims supported killing civilians in defence of Islam. Clear majorities wish to live under sharia and support the death penalty for premarital sex. These are not responses to powerlessness. These are responses to people you view as inferiors, people who lived as dhimmis, second class citizens, for centuries under Islamic rule being allowed to control territory that was conquered by Islam.

That's also why in 1938 the Arabs rejected a proposal by the British to give those former dhimmis, the Jews, just 500 square miles of the Mandate territory as their state. This is not a new attitude. It predates the existence of Israel.

Muslim Beliefs About Sharia | Pew Research Center

They are not staying out of it. They publicly support Israel, refuse to call the siege a war crime but say instead it's "self defense".

Send navy ship and spy planes and military help. Like Israel needs military help? Against Gaza?

That's actively participating. They need to actively help fix what they broke now.

'Nice people are not naughty people.'

People literally die as a result of this kind of glib lunacy you know. This is why Jewish schoolkids are being kept at home today, in England.

Germany Arrests 6 Syrian Migrants Suspected of ISIS Links - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Germany Arrests Teenage Refugee With Islamic State Link - WSJ

So how would you solve this shit show then?

If you are going to use old surveys to bolster your argument, at least don’t report them out of context. The actual finding was

“Around the world, most Muslims also reject suicide bombing and other attacks against civilians. However, substantial minorities in several countries say such acts of violence are at least sometimes justified, including 26% of Muslims in Bangladesh, 29% in Egypt, 39% in Afghanistan and 40% in the Palestinian territories.”

Attacks against civilians are sometimes justified is very different from a blanket support of the killing of civilians.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-exec/

Clear majorities wish to live under sharia and support the death penalty for premarital sex.

False. The majority of Palestinian Muslims are against honour killings.

Supporting genocide is not a normal response to feeling desperate and powerless.

Tell that to Israel.

You haven't read the question that was asked correctly. The text, predictably enough, is attempting to play down the finding.

'at least sometimes' is not 'sometimes'. Read it all again. I didn't claim it was 'blanket support of the killing of civilians' either.

I'm fascinated that 2013 is so old though. Has there been some delightful peace and rapprochement in the 10 years since then? All reformed characters now despite the recent opinion polls demonstrating that many, or most, supported Hamas?

Britain had to (eventually) stand firm against a policy of appeasement re Nazi Germany. We are standing firm and will not appease a state whose government once again has a stated objective of wiping Jews off the face of the Earth. Britain will not be forced to appease the terrorists.

What choice did Israel have but to go after Hamas, an organisation who have refused to negotiate, who want to wipe out the people they are negotiating with.

Either you lack understanding of history, support the ending of a Jewish State or you just haven’t got a grasp on the reality of the situation happening there

You clearly are having trouble distinguishing between different ethnicities, nationalities and groups of people by posting links regarding Syrian members of ISIS on a thread about Palestine and Israel. Is it because you think all Muslims are the same? And to be equally feared? There is a word for that.

Look at the table. It shows the % that say honour killings are 'never' justified. That's 46% and 44% for Palestine - depending on whether men or women committed the offence. That's a minority obviously enough. It follows that the majority either support or don't oppose death for premarital sex. There may have been a proportion that have no view on it, it's not clear. But the that's pretty damning in itself! As I said above, the text, and indeed the words of the questions, are phrased to put as optimistic a slant on the results as possible.

Oh shriek more. Childish name-calling doesn't work on me.

https://www.azquotes.com/quotes/topics/palestine.html

Interesting quotes from significant people on the situation in Israel and Palestine.

'Israel says it will turn the power back on when the hostages are returned'. The hostages that they are killing themselves now via their aerial bombardment? 13 of them dead due to bombs already it said on the news.
Clearly it's the fault of Hamas that they are there in the first place and it's disgraceful- but Israel are not going to get them out alive by bombing them are they?

You stated In 2013, 40% of Palestinian muslims supported killing civilians in defence of Islam.. Which is a negatively biased distortion of what was actually found by the survey you linked. By not having the qualifier of “at least sometimes” you implied a blanket support. You also exaggerated this as “supporting genocide” when “sometimes justified attacks” on civilians are not the same as supporting genocide.

All reformed characters now despite the recent opinion polls demonstrating that many, or most, supported Hamas?
The polls were done before Hamas’ attacks so cannot be used to state that most Palestinians support Hamas’ war crimes.

Nor me. You’ve called me childish and lunatic so far. I haven’t called you a single name.

Israel has a right to defend itself. When Hamas uses the Palestinian people as human shields, Palestinian people get hurt.

Actually, assuming a voting age of 18, then anyone under 35 couldn't have voted for them. And given that 50% of the population are children, I'm assuming the under 35s are a very sizeable chunk.

An entire city of 2.3 million people cannot be called a “human shield” for one terrorist group. I thought we had evolved past this, this is the same justification the US used to drop atomic bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

No one wants to see what we are seeing but we need to remember what started it this time. Hamas' evil murdering of the innocent

It started much longer ago, 1948 in fact. You might look at this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

There needs to be a coup, there wouldn’t be a shortage of external help. Hamas has brought all this on the Palestinians.

Actually it started over 2,500 years ago with the commencement of the neverending persecution’s and exiles of the Jewish people.