I understand why they are so set on destroying Hamas

[FebruaryOnMyMind]

Having seen the stories of the women and girls raped at the festival (reportedly over their dead friends bodies) and the people taken off as hostage; I understand why Israel want to destroy Hamas. They have said that Hamas militants are dead men. They have said that they will go after them. The worst killing of Jewish people since the Holocaust and their 9/11 with death toll of over 1300 people.

The story of the women at the Music and Peace festival is here -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12623023/Israeli-girls-raped-friends-bodies-Hamas-terrorists-carried-second-Holocaust-British-relatives-reveal-condemn-celebrated-atrocities-Gaza-Iran-London.html

Yet some people celebrated when the killings of Jewish people (they were from many different countries) at the festival was announced.

I feel sadness for everything going on in the middle east and for all the people who are innocent are are dying. Terrorists need to be stopped.

Murdering babies?

Are you really going there?

Are you saying that the people in Gaza support these actions of Hamas?

I side with Palestine 100%.

You can try and justify your terror attacks on Palestinians daily by painting Hamas as the oppressors.

Continue with your distorted narrative.

@Alexandra2001 just so I'm clear, you think that all deaths in this conflict are hamas' fault and Israel is blameless?

I'm glad to finally see a thread where most people aren't completely deluded into thinking most gazans are innocent civilians

Half of the population of Gaza are children.

And of the other half, there will be at least some that don’t support Hamas, possibly quite a few, just like there will be many that don’t support Putin in Russia, or the Taliban in Afghanistan. Do you think those people would ever be in a position to speak out? Of course not.

@KeepTheTempo I tried to find out how many Palestinians have been killed since 1948 by Zionists/Israelis. The only figure I found was 5.1 million.

Perhaps many Palestinians do support Hamas. Perhaps many even support the abhorrent massacres over the weekend. That still doesn't change the fact that there are innocent children in Gaza who are suffering through no fault of their own. And I cannot support that.

I’ve seen many saying this, but what exactly do you expect to happen?

Israel to say ‘It’s ok actually, keep the hostages, and here’s some water and food for you, terrorists and all. Oh and don’t worry about the rapes and murders and wanting to wipe Jews from the face of the planet, it’s all good’.

Over the age of 13/14 those children will be hating and wanting to kill Jews too. Children aged 16 were gleefully taking part in the rape and massacre during the rave.

Those younger are suffering and dead already if they remain under Hamas rule. They were already starving and deprived of aid by Hamas. And seeing as most Palestinians support Hamas, that will never stop.

These same people saying this are always mewling about seeing both sides, but what they really mean is Israel should just meekly offer aid and let Hamas keep amassing its strength and slaughtering their people. Lie down and accept death is the only ‘good’ option some think they could take.

I'd like to know if people were similarly outraged by the response from targeted nations following 9/11.

As I said on another thread earlier, I was deeply uncomfortable about the civilian deaths in Afghanistan after 9/11. Shocking as 9/11 was, I just couldn't understand how anyone could think that innocent people on Afghanistan should have to pay for that.

No I don't think Hamas want peace and yes they would like to wipe out Israel, the same Israel government do not want peace and would like to wipe out Palestine without or without Hamas. This is the point I am making. Israel has been slaughtering Palestinian civilians for years. How do you think Palestinians should feel towards Israel for the atrocities they have committed over the years? Dot not believe or will acknowledge what Israel has done to Palestine or think they only ever retaliate?

So why do you think Hamas launched the attack just as Israel were getting closer with Saudi Arabia- Yes this very well could have been a motive for Hamas but I do not understand why you keep referring to this as it doesn't change what Israel's years of apartheid, occupation and ethic cleansing of all of Palestine, not just Hamas.

This thread is a sickening read. As stated before, so many arguments here are completely one sided. The torture of a million children, which is exactly what this is, is heart breaking. Anyone that thinks it is justified has lost their humanity.

Absolutely! Israel is committing a genocide in front of our eyes and the world does nothing.
I am appalled by some of the post on here, posts who are enable to discern between a Hamas terrorist and a Palestinian civilian, who are prepared to advocate for the deaths of thousands through bombing, starvation, lack of water and more.
I despair.

No that’s not the point. The point is they want to live and are entitled to live in Palestine. And why should they leave? They have as much claim as the Israelis. What Hamas did on Saturday was disgusting and has shook me to my core. But let’s not pretend the retaliation against innocent women and children in Palestine is not also unreasonable force.

Repulsive.

Hamas ARE oppressors. Anyone who thinks they give a fuck about Palestinians rather than about continuing their hate war at any cost are fucking deluded.

This mumsnet, there are no innocent men!
This whole thread, just like every other, is totally one sided and painful to read.
Terrible for both sides, but it baffles me how so many can be totally behind Israel, when so many innocent Palestinians have suffered and been displaced.

The aim of hamas is to annihilate Israel and its people, but israel are the ones committing genocide?
They aren't killing Palestinians in the west bank or Israel, just the ones affiliated with hamas

I support the people of Palestine. I do not support Hamas. I support the people of Israel. I do not support the Israeli Government.

That said Gaza is just an open air prison.

There will obviously be a range of views.

@miniegg3 hamas might say they want to wipe out Israel but israel actually have the power as well as the inclination to achieve that.

@Myrkwood hamas are a bunch of desperate, brainwashed men.

I was quite surprised to see lot of support for Hamas on here but I think (I hope) its probably because people have not had access to videos and photographs of what Hamas done to ordinary Israelis - children, women and elderly; I assume mainstream media is not publishing these because the images are too horrible and because you can see and identify the victims. But you can see all of it on Telegram, and I actually stopped looking at news there as I cant take it anymore.

Yes, there were deaths on both sides, this is an ongoing conflict, both sides didn't exactly cover themselves in glory. But this attack was on another level. It can only be compared to Holocaust or Pogroms, it was unbelievably barbaric and cruel.

People of Gaza picked Hamas as their leaders. Hamas is literally Gaza now; they are running every part of the enclave's infrastructure. I would imagine the majority of families in Gaza are related to at least one of the Hamas fighters. Also, its worth keeping in mind that, despite the visible poverty, there are high tech tunnels under the most of Gaza, and they are not used to protect ordinary people, instead, they are used to house terrorists and rocket production facilities. Hamas could not care less about its people. Its kind of awful that Hamas are seen as "freedom fighters", they are most definitely not that.

I still feel sad when I see anyone (especially kids) hurt but what else can Israel do?! Hamas openly declares its main goal to be the elimination of Israel, and they have shown they are quite capable of killing hundreds of people without any regrets. I think its got to the point of no return, and I know who I support in this situation.

That's pretty irrelevant.. israel are acting in retaliation. It was a pretty stupid act from hamas, and they can only expect full force back from Israel

How many deaths is 'enough'? What is an acceptable 'final score'? How long will the killing go on? What is the relative value of a Palestinian life v an Israeli life? I guess we will find out over the coming days.

I support decent Israelis and Palestinians.

@localnotail I just can't wrap my head around anyone discussing how despicable the hamas attacks were whilst falling to mention the bombing and siege of two million people, who may well die of dehydration.

This! They couldn't give a shit about their own people

No. I'm not saying that the Israelis should do nothing. I have made it very clear that I would support a targeted response.

From what I've read, the IDF and the Israeli intelligence services are pretty sophisticated. Their allies such as the US are also pretty sophisticated. I believe that a more targeted response would be possible.

I'm not saying that it's realistic to assume that there will be no civilian casualties at all, but adopting a blanket approach that indiscriminately targets innocent children as well as Hamas militants is not warranted in my opinion. I accept that others disagree and see the Palestinian children as unfortunate collateral damage. I can't subscribe to that perspective.

Also, if food and water are scarce, I don't suppose Israeli hostages will be first in line for any rations that are available. Won't they suffer too as a result of this approach? Israel seems to be relying on Hamas to cave in to protect their people, but what if Hamas doesn't actually care how much suffering is caused in Gaza. In many ways, Israel starving Palestinian children of basic necessities such as food, water and medicine merely fuels the Hamas narrative and wins them more support.

It's a mistake to assume that these terrorists care about the suffering of their own people. They would have known that Israel wound retaliate before they committed the atrocities at the weekend. They don't care, because their fight against Israel is the only thing that matters to them. They lack the humanity to care about the impact on their own people. That doesn't mean that the rest of us don't have to care either.

@miniegg3 tell me, do you teach your children to retaliate?