I understand why they are so set on destroying Hamas

[FebruaryOnMyMind]

Having seen the stories of the women and girls raped at the festival (reportedly over their dead friends bodies) and the people taken off as hostage; I understand why Israel want to destroy Hamas. They have said that Hamas militants are dead men. They have said that they will go after them. The worst killing of Jewish people since the Holocaust and their 9/11 with death toll of over 1300 people.

The story of the women at the Music and Peace festival is here -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12623023/Israeli-girls-raped-friends-bodies-Hamas-terrorists-carried-second-Holocaust-British-relatives-reveal-condemn-celebrated-atrocities-Gaza-Iran-London.html

Yet some people celebrated when the killings of Jewish people (they were from many different countries) at the festival was announced.

I feel sadness for everything going on in the middle east and for all the people who are innocent are are dying. Terrorists need to be stopped.

1. US media reports say Egypt will open its border crossing to Gaza to allow Palestinians with dual nationality out and much-needed aid in

Israel appears to deny reports of a truce in southern Gaza, half an hour after security sources in Egypt told Reuters a ceasefire had been agreed to coincide with the reopening of the Rafah crossing. A statement from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office says: "There is currently no truce and humanitarian aid in Gaza in exchange for getting foreigners out."

Over the weekend there have been reports that allegations of beheading israeli babies is not what it seems. Same has been said of the rape allegations. I don't have time to post links and keep coming back but feel free to do your own research.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html

TheMixedGirl

I must say I remain confused on why the baby beheading and rape is so discussed (and we know people were raped regardless )
my neighbour (Arabic ) also sent me a link

it is like everyone will say ‘ah, they didn’t behead babies - drop the plans guys ‘

also knowing that multiple Palestinian babies will be crushed in the next few days anyway

I’m finding the whole war crime discussion frustrating

You keep saying about how people are celebrating the death of Israelis but it works both ways. Here is a clip of Jewish settlers celebrating the deaths of Gazans. ❗Trigger warning disturbing images at the end of video❗
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJTAGQ1k/

Nobody actually knows where Hamas is. Nobody should celebrate an entire community being pulverised.

And Let's be realistic people aren't "giving up Hamas" because they don't know where they are. Not because they're supporting terrorism.

Considering the fact the Israeli government literally funded Hamas as a way to keep Palestine divided there is a significant chance that the ring leaders of Hamas are holed up in a government funded bunker somewhere. Because despite what they tell you the Israeli govt don't want the conflict to end. If the conflict ends there's a chance of negotiating a solution. The current Israeli government wants a purely Jewish ethnostate

That’s the thing.
30 Israel baby died beheaded
700 Palestinian baby died cuz the house got targeted by Israel “by mistake”

is there any difference? Is there 1sr class and 2nd class deaths?

It's a common tactic in war propaganda. It's supposed to dehumanise the enemy so you then think whatever happens next is ok. No-one should be murdering or raping civilians - regardless of whether they're terrorists or a supposed democracy.
The international community needs to work out how they enforce international law because currently too many are supporting war crimes.
And as I've said on other threads, MN needs to work out its role too because certain 'posters' are supporting war crimes and spreading disinformation. MN doesn't need to give them a platform.

Israeli forces have killed 34 Palestinian children so far this year - before all this started.

Personally I think it’s extremely hard to distinguish between Hamas and the normal population , bar very young children they have militants all ages and genders . Doesn’t help the fact that every time the west suffers a big jihadist attack Palestinians cheer and party in the streets ( just google news channels after 9/11 or the French terrorist attacks ) so makes it even harder to know who is good and who is bad so part if me understands why some cannot emphasise .
So Israel needs to ceasefire , send mossad to go after the big fish hiding o Qatar and similar and just “ deal with it “ one by own and send a message through out the chain .
Ceasefire , allow proper international aid ( not countries with terrorist affiliations as Iran and Lebanon ) . Let people heal and talk .
Anyone having a issue with Hamas leaders being dealt with needs to give their head a whobble as they are nothing but terrorist sympathisers

Are you telling me they can’t know who is a terrorist and who isn’t ? So Spain finish with its terrorism, so did uk and they can’t do it in Israel with all the technologies?

tell you who is not a terrorist those that are in the un buildings that Israel is bombing , the kids , etc etc. they’re just shooting to kill, many police / army from Israel are saying it. We don’t care about Palestinians, we want to kill them

I'd give a lot more credence to this video if it mentioned that Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 for the purpose of promoting peace.

What the bloke presenting the video doesn't mention is the HAMAS CHARTER which calls for the destruction of Israel, they're not just some freedom fighters.

That’s exactly what I’m telling you . Is a 5 year old child holding an explosives because his father told him too a terrorist ? One with a knife ? A father teaching a child all westerners deserve to die or all Jews must be killed , is that terrorism ? Is this terrorism ( see video ) ? For me it is , but I refuse to believe in killing such young children .
in places as Palestine and Lebanon terrorism is ingrained in the population . You cannot kill everyone .
You are comparing a developed country as Spain with Palestine ?

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1712409699537072397?s=46&t=Pyt2miFSfNp9un2y5Wglbw

You cannot defeat an ideology, the Americans killed many leading Al Qaida suspects, the Israelis did similar with the PLO, we then got many more extremist organisations.

When a population wants to resist, its very hard to stop them eg look at how the Nazis took revenge on resistance fighters during WW2, did it stop them? no.

100% agree Hamas don't wear uniforms, they can go from planting an IED to working in a market or looking after the children in a blink of an eye.

Hamas want Israel gone and the feeling seems to be mutual, having lived through the last 60 years of these conflicts, i think unless there is a total change of mindset on both sides and they both give up their red lines, there will be no peace.
Two state is the obvious answer but how?

It’s not that I don’t know what you are saying is true is that I cannot bring myself to accept the easy solution which would be kill any sympathiser ( and even then the hate would still be there for the next generations ) .
Palestine never accepted Israel could existe , Israel could be 2 square miles and they would still say no .
My only hope is with education maybe in a few generations things start to change ? Either way hinting the main people in Hamas would be a good start .
There isn’t an easy or peaceful solution , not when terrorism doesn’t take anything into account . Babies , women , disabled , makes nil difference, you cannot negotiate with someone who doesn’t think you are human .

It's not really about defeating an ideology. The Spanish did defeat ETA, although I'm sure Basque separatism lives on so maybe another such group will rise in future. The Russians suppressed their jihadists in Chechnya pretty successfully, although jihadism itself will never end. Most western countries aren't going to do what Russia did in Chechnya though. I don't think Israel will either.

I don't think anyone is comparing Palestine to Spain. Comparing Israel with Spain would be entirely appropriate. Remember Israel's GDP per capita is better than Spain's, better than Japan's even.

Im basque (the place where terrorism in Spain was a few years ago) and I can tell some of the things between Basque Country and Palestine are similar but luckily many others aren’t.

I’ve bem to Israel a few times , Israel is a modern country with amazing medical facilities and fifties and lots of great technology. But Palestine is far from it and Hamas people will be all over the Middle East and will have associations with ezbolah and very powerful people in mega rich countries . Still as above the ideology has been passed to the kids , what do you do with children that openly say they will bomb and stab Jews ? Only long term education away from jihadism I’ll help . I think the only possible solution to Palestine is a hand over of power to a outside source like UN ( for lack of better ) so they can educate a couple of generations away from hate

I won't post anymore on the thread as it's pretty pointless, everyone is entrenched, my final words are:

I truly believe Israel could live with a 2 state solution, it's been offered many times only to be rejected by the Arab side every time.

I truly believe that Arab nations want a Palestinian state to replace the State of Israel and have no intentions of accepting anything else.

I also find it abhorrent that the leaders of Gaza, over the years, have squandered billions of pounds in aid on arms and hate and have not done anything to improve the lives of Gazans as far as infrastructure, new schools, new business opportunities or even managing the large amount of fresh water the territory lies on, everything is a disaster because it seems the whole point of their existence was and is to be a thorn in the side of the Jews on behalf of the Arab Nations.

I don't mean to offend anyone but that's how I feel.

My apology for the spelling , I’m exhausted with 3 poorly kids and my ADHD is all over the place , spelling is the first thing to go once my brain is on overdrive

I feel a bit like you , like we are talking with a brick wall , just wanted to say I agree with you pretty much on everything .

If Israel could live with a 2 state solution, they d not be building new settlements on the West Bank, 400,000 Israelis live on the WB, almost all in new settlements.

I agree given they have the Lions share of the land I'm not sure why the illegal settling is happening. IDF assist with this they escort the settlers in.

this is a good documentary about the west bank I watched the other day:

When Israel was created they were given the worst arable land in the worst areas, this forced them to be pioneers in things like irrigation and botany and they struggled but eventually fed the people (including Arabs and Christians)

Do I agree with illegal settlements? No, of course not and it should not happen.

This is so informative, thank you!