I understand why they are so set on destroying Hamas

[FebruaryOnMyMind]

Having seen the stories of the women and girls raped at the festival (reportedly over their dead friends bodies) and the people taken off as hostage; I understand why Israel want to destroy Hamas. They have said that Hamas militants are dead men. They have said that they will go after them. The worst killing of Jewish people since the Holocaust and their 9/11 with death toll of over 1300 people.

The story of the women at the Music and Peace festival is here -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12623023/Israeli-girls-raped-friends-bodies-Hamas-terrorists-carried-second-Holocaust-British-relatives-reveal-condemn-celebrated-atrocities-Gaza-Iran-London.html

Yet some people celebrated when the killings of Jewish people (they were from many different countries) at the festival was announced.

I feel sadness for everything going on in the middle east and for all the people who are innocent are are dying. Terrorists need to be stopped.

I'm off the fence I'm afraid. No one is squeaky clean, but you must be able to understand the difference between civilians (human shields) getting caught in the cross fire in attempts to combat guerilla warfare, and targeting civillians deliberately, repeatedly and viciously.

The Israelis are between a rock and a hard place. Where are they supposed to go. Hammas are nutters.

They withdrew from Gazza at one point. Dismantled settlement, forcibly removed their own citizens. Didn't work

Israel has the backing of the US so their neighbours can't succede in their aim of wiping them out. If my drunken, foul mouthed husband kept beating me up and raping me, am I privileged to have the backing of a women's aid centre and the police.

Yes, I was on the fence too, but withdrawing from Gaza hasn't worked. I'm guessing their plan is to retake it and strengthen their position in the region.

Unfortunately not all those killed by Israel were caught in the cross fire. Many of them were directly targeted and killed.

In your scenario you’re powerless. But if the police had lend you a Kalashnikov then maybe … you would be more strong when your drunk husband was beating you. Israel has got the power to destroy Gaza, Gaza doesn’t have the power to destroy Israel or wipe out all the Jewish people

I think it’s okay to acknowledge the superior military resources Israel have whilst understanding the need for that protection, and appreciating this makes Israel safer and less at risk from those choosing to harm them.

I think you are naive to think that Israel can go ahead and break the rules of war and everyone will just nod their heads and agree with their actions. That is misplaced.

Hamas actions on Saturday were diabolical. Israel's actions since have been diabolical. Contravening statutory frameworks and conventions put in place to prevent genocide is illegal. You can't decry genocide in one population and be okay with it in another, it doesn't work like that.

But I have never said those things you accuse me of. In fact those are your own words.

Exactly this ! Any innocent human being butchered or tortured is bloody shocking ,regardless of where you were born or what your religion is !
I personally am not watching the news because I don’t want those images in my head .

Inaccurate distortion of history.

The following excerpts have been taken from the United Nations website:

www.un.org/unispal/history/

"Palestine was among former Ottoman territories placed under UK administration by the League of Nations in 1922. "

You can see in this link which countries were members of the League Of Nations in 1922 when Palestine was placed under UK administration.

www.britannica.com/topic/League-of-Nations/Members-of-the-League-of-Nations

"UK considered various formulas to bring independence to a land ravaged by violence. In 1947, the UK turned the Palestine problem over to the UN."

Under British administration, Palestine was NOT partitioned, but you will often hear people talking as though it was!
So, we move on to the actual partition itself:

"After looking at alternatives, the UN proposed terminating the Mandate and partitioning Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized (Resolution 181 (II) of 1947)."

As we can see, the partition of Palestine was not caused by the British Government alone.

The collective members of the United Nations made that decision.

"One of the two envisaged States proclaimed its independence as Israel and in the 1948 war involving neighbouring Arab States expanded to 77 percent of the territory of mandate Palestine, including the larger part of Jerusalem. "

The Office Of The Historian in the United States says the following:

"The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948."

history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war

Whether you believe it was Israel or the five Arab nations who started the conflict, it is clear that the United Kingdom is not to blame for the partition as it didn't enact that plan.

Partition was a United Nations collective plan.

Personally, I would argue it was the FIVE Arab States who kickstarted the Arab-Israeli aka Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

They have said they will switch everything back on if the hostages are returned. It's not that complicated

An Israeli peace activist, whose mother was killed by Hamas last week said this evening on Channel 4 news something along the lines of ' Do dead Palestinian babies make up for dead Israeli babies?'

By all means destroy Hamas, but without a fair and reasonable two state solution the cycle of violence that has been in motion since the foundation of Israel will continue.

Already it seems Israel has killed more civilians in its retaliation than Hamas killed last week. Is an Israeli life worth more?

By all means destroy Hamas, but without a fair and reasonable two state solution

A fair and reasonable two-state solution sounds great. Can someone tell Hamas and see what they say?

Is this said by the same people that said “let’s treat them like what they’re … animals” ? Sorry if I don’t believe the Israel government

And Bibi Netanyahu as well.....

But you still think Hamas should release its innocent hostages, right?

That is what is going to happen though. Hamas will be destroyed. Maybe perhaps Hezbollah.

Then perhaps parties can sit down to look at a two state solution. Because it needs the radicals including the Iranian regime to be out of the equation before 'the lion and the lamb can sit together'.

Isn't your valid post entirely circular?

https://twitter.com/AbirKopty/status/1712254321507643607

Bernie Sander’s statement.

Israel is armed as well as it is precisely because it has been consistently attacked since its declaration of independence in 1948 when FIVE Arab States invaded it. And that not long after the Nazi Holocaust in Europe.

Knowing your people faced extermination in Europe AND your State is surrounded by hostile States in addition to various terrorist groups whose aim is to destroy your State is always going to push you to develop lots of security measures & military.
**
When you know that a rogue State like Iran has been backing Hamas, you know that level of protection is valid. It acts as a deterrent to a rogue State not to attack, especially since it is supported by the West.

Iran is no stranger to supporting terrorist groups. Provisional IRA, Greek 17 November group, Corsican nationalists and ETA, the Basque separatists, are all examples of terrorist groups Iran has supported over the years.

Israel is not out to wipe the Palestinian people off the map, but they are interested in wiping Hamas and any support they get in Gaza.

Hamas in conjunction with Iran could destroy Israel. Hamas without Iranian backing? Highly unlikely.

You cannot have peace until you've first broken the enemy in various ways. Palestinian support for Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups must be broken. A majority of Palestinian Gazans support Hamas.

The umbilical cord connecting Hamas to Iran is harder to destroy.

The images coming out of Gaza are awful; terrified, bewildered and bloodied children. However, this is on the Gazan government. Israel isn't doing this on a whim. Egypt is also despicable for refusing to open the border to civilians. Hamas has shown that they are prepared to break all the rules in their jihad. Killing children as collateral damage is bad enough, but seeking them out, capturing them and murdering them - when you have every choice and chance not to - is a whole other level of worse.

Can we talk about innocence please?

Let's say there are 2mn people in Gaza, 50% adults, half of them are men, so about 500k adult men vs about 40k hamas. This is more than 10men against one hamas fighter. Appreciate they have weapon etc, but in such overpopulated area locals must know where this all is stored, where are their bases etc.

If innocent Gazans don't support hamas, then why they don't do anything about it?

So maybe they do support? and if they do, then how are they innocent?