I understand why they are so set on destroying Hamas

[FebruaryOnMyMind]

Having seen the stories of the women and girls raped at the festival (reportedly over their dead friends bodies) and the people taken off as hostage; I understand why Israel want to destroy Hamas. They have said that Hamas militants are dead men. They have said that they will go after them. The worst killing of Jewish people since the Holocaust and their 9/11 with death toll of over 1300 people.

The story of the women at the Music and Peace festival is here -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12623023/Israeli-girls-raped-friends-bodies-Hamas-terrorists-carried-second-Holocaust-British-relatives-reveal-condemn-celebrated-atrocities-Gaza-Iran-London.html

Yet some people celebrated when the killings of Jewish people (they were from many different countries) at the festival was announced.

I feel sadness for everything going on in the middle east and for all the people who are innocent are are dying. Terrorists need to be stopped.

Op by sending aid to Israel the UK is supporting genocide. Gaza is tiny compared to Israel. Hamas is small in comparison to paladtinian civilians.

Is there no way they can get the women and children out of Gaza? Not that women can't be terrorists but it's surely much less likely?

The weakness of any terrorist group is people. So, if you target and wipe out a majority or all their members you will either massively decimate their ability to attack you. The other end result would be that group is finished aka defeated.

Hamas leaders can be in Qatar or Iran, but if they don't have much of a membership there won't be very much they could do in response. You need people in order to launch future attacks.

And the leadership may be living on borrowed time thereafter. Israel have taken out terrorist leaders outside Israel/Palestine in the past in a pretty precise way.

State forces are able to withstand the deaths of their own personnel against terrorist groups.

@Mustardseed86 rishi Is sending aid to Israel. He is literally supporting genocide. They have no intention on getting anyone out. Otherwise they wouldn't be rushing to send things to Israel who is huge in comparison to palestine and hamas is tiny compared to Palestinian civilians. Israel.font need any aid. They have enough to destroy as it Is. I'm ashamed of the UK to be honest

Have you seen the number of Israel people have died since the conflict started few decades ago and the number of citizens from Palestine?
and do you really think Israel army hasn’t done those things as well?
the following news are from m before the weekend. Hope you also find this disgusting and not only what hamas does. Israel government and hamas are both terrorists

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-06-12/ty-article-opinion/.premium/these-are-their-names-28-palestinian-kids-killed-by-israeli-forces-this-year/00000188-aa5a-db59-a19a-fe7b87120000

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/08/28/west-bank-spike-israeli-killings-palestinian-children

https://www.dailysabah.com/world/mid-east/deceased-israeli-soldier-boasted-about-raping-palestinian-woman/amp

How are the Israeli's supposed to react, if not with siege tactics?

In reality, Israel will cease to exist if it's perceived to be weak in its response. As the saying goes - if Hamas puts down its weapons, there will be peace. If Israelis put down their weapons, there will be no Israel.

Co-existence is not on the Hamas manifesto:“There is no solution to the Palestine problem except through Jihad (holy war).”

Is winning the war worth fighting back? Are Israeli lives worth protecting? The Israelis think yes.

twitter.com/BowesChay/status/1712491941269532976?t=4333_G9mARlUlGiHzvBKuQ&s=19

"On Sky news ex Israeli PM Naftali Bennett was asked-

"What about the babies in incubators in Gaza who's life support has been turned off because the Israelis have cut off the power"

His answer - Are you serious asking about Palestinian civilians? What's wrong with you?"

The conflict was started by the UK in 1917 by the Balfour Declaration.

At what cost? The innocent on both sides are the ones who will suffer the most. The whole thing is fucking heartbreaking, the lives of Israel’s children and Palestine’s should have equal value.

I'm not a massive fan of Humza Yousaf but he has been very eloquent on the reasons people can't just leave Gaza. His ILs and other Scottish citizens are trapped there. Even with the might of the British FO, they can't guarantee safe passage.
Tbh I'm surprised the UK Government and Keir Starmer are being quite so cavalier and vocal in their support of the flouting of international law when that flouting is directly threatening the lives of innocent, UK citizens.

"Need to"??? Seriously?!

One of the major guiding principles of international law - especially the Geneva Conventions (which, for the uninitiated, essentially boil down to "rules for when shit has already hit the fan and you do find yourself at war - for the non-psychopaths among us") is that violations by one party do not justify the same by another!

In other words: no, Israel does not NEED TO bomb civilians in Gaza any more than Hamas NEEDED TO kill entire families in Kfar Azza!

That is just utter bullshit! Nobody bloody NEEDS TO massacre civilians!

For the record: I think I probably, on deeply personal grounds, despiseHamas more than you do! I am not excusing them! At all! I might be an atheist - but if I were not, I would want their leadership in hell!

But also: yes, I DO hold Israel to a somewhat higher standard! Absolutely, I do! That will be because the state of Israel claims to be a liberal democracy. I actually happen to believe in the ideals of liberal democracy (whereas I would not be seen dead subscribing to those of Hamas). So, you BET I expect leaders that claim to be in my camp to suck less than ones I would not be seen dead with!

Don't confuse Netanyahu's foreign policy with the will of ordinary Israelis. They are not the same.

Netanyahu won 27% of the vote at the last election.
Please do not think he represents the average Jewish Israeli.

I wonder if the main stream media will report this. Cutting limbs off a body and running it over.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CySNsvPOPiW/?igshid=MmU2YjMzNjRlOQ==

How can people not see that such reactive and devastating retaliation is creating a whole cohort of Gaza's population who will be potentially radicalised? What are the demographics of the crowds who are digging people out of bombed buildings in Gaza? Mostly young men. Hundreds of thousands of young men feeling powerless and watching the beginning of a genocide. Hamas aren't organised - this is not Ukraine who have a defence plan and boots on the ground. If Isreal aren't careful they will drive these people to organise and bite back. Where is the de-escalation and international dialogue? All I can see is a misplaced 'Isreal have a right to defend herself' rhetoric that's helping nobody.

75% of Gaza's population are refugees - they will look at Israel who displaced them, they will look at Isreal who are occupying them and bombing the shit out of them and they will radicalise. Israel's action is potentially creating a whole new cohort of terrorists. What is the end game here?

I can't believe what I'm reading. That's not 'privilege', That's competent government in the face of a continuing threat to it's security and the lives of it's citizens.

I vote for negotiations
You vote for genocide

See you at the museum

You're really twisting yourself into contorsions here. Of course I'm not in favour of genocide, I just don't see how peace negotiations are possible with Hamas in charge. Should Israel pull on it's 'big girl pants' before or after the neighbouring government recognises their right to exist?

The border crossing at Rafah is now open.

www.reuters.com/world/egypt-facilitating-deliveries-aid-sinai-gaza-2023-10-12/#:~:text=The%20Rafah%20crossing%20between%20Sinai,that%20prevented%20normal%20operations%20there.

Egypt has closed the border

Ofcourse they won't @Glitterdavies they call Palestinians animals, what about those in the car and filming. They are insult to human kind. My heart goes out to palestine

This is totally inaccurate. Palestine was originally part of the Ottoman Empire before it became a colony of the British empire. It became the state of Israel in 1948 after millions of displaced traumatised Jewish families that Germany tried to exterminate were resettled in Israel. The rest of Palestine was shared by Egypt and Jordan at the time. The U.K. most certainly did not start a conflict.

@crumpet

NotSuchASmugMarried
But Gaza has a border with Egypt. They could use that.

Egypt has closed the border

+++

Egypt has reopened the border - see my post below.

You are very naive to say:

All I can see is a misplaced 'Isreal have a right to defend herself' rhetoric that's helping nobody.

You clearly have no idea of the history of Jews. People always have a right to defend themselves. Particularly when there have been several diaspora of Jews over two thousand years. Romans, Visigoths, Ottomans, etc, etc. But you will at least have heard about Nazi Socialism?

And even today in the 21st Century there is State that wants to destroy Israel. It is the Iranian regime. More than 75 years after Hitler's death here we are again. Mass genocide against Jews.

Israel is not going to sit down with terrorists and paedophiles and discuss living together. That would be very misplaced.

I think it’s being pointed out that Israel have the backing of the worlds biggest super power backing them. They have access to warfare and resources.