I understand why they are so set on destroying Hamas

[FebruaryOnMyMind]

Having seen the stories of the women and girls raped at the festival (reportedly over their dead friends bodies) and the people taken off as hostage; I understand why Israel want to destroy Hamas. They have said that Hamas militants are dead men. They have said that they will go after them. The worst killing of Jewish people since the Holocaust and their 9/11 with death toll of over 1300 people.

The story of the women at the Music and Peace festival is here -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12623023/Israeli-girls-raped-friends-bodies-Hamas-terrorists-carried-second-Holocaust-British-relatives-reveal-condemn-celebrated-atrocities-Gaza-Iran-London.html

Yet some people celebrated when the killings of Jewish people (they were from many different countries) at the festival was announced.

I feel sadness for everything going on in the middle east and for all the people who are innocent are are dying. Terrorists need to be stopped.

I'm so sorry to everyone on this thread who has families and loved ones caught up in the violence.

Does anyone know what is likely to happen to Gaza if Israel are successful in destroying Hamas? I saw a quote from Netanyahu saying "I say to the residents of Gaza - get out of there now". Assuming that safe corridors of escape are able to be opened (into Egypt?) would residents of Gaza who did flee have a right to return to their homes and businesses? Or would Gaza become part of Israel? Or it is simply not know yet?

It's an idea, I'll give you that much.

I am still hoping that a safe zone can be created for women, children and the elderly on the gaza side of the Egyptian border (given the Egyptians don’t want to take them in).

But the reality is the Israelis cannot leave hamas to it.

It's not showing they're 'not soft targets'. Actually it's showing the opposite. It's showing that despite international treaties, certain members of the UN, the EU and NATO - will ignore, and even support, flagrant breaches of the international laws and codes that they committed to support. It's showing that none of the peace-keeping treaties are worth anything. It's unilaterally trashing any pretence of upholding principles of co-operation, peace, international law, international human rights or the Hague convention on genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. It's a horrendous precedent to set. And the Uk, the US, Israel and their allies are obviously hoping if there is enough 'noise' on social media, their electorates won't notice that, by their actions, they are currently ripping up the frameworks that were built to keep all of us civilians safe.

You make very important points. Its because they are Jewish. People treat things differently and turn themselves knto knots with whataboutery and splutter on. The attack that led to this response from Israel was Hamas at its most brutal. Israel are not going to stand by after that.

Israel has been bombing those corridors
only 1k people a day can go through them

Israel's army is very good
Israel's GDP is very good
Israel's intelligence service are supreme with star spangles
Gaza is inadequate in every sense

If negotiations are to work, Israel needs to pull up it's big person pants and start talking and check it's privileges.

Or do you prefer genocide?

Egypt has just announced that they don't want Palestinian refugees to enter Egypt. So a neighbouring country isn't helping.
Compare to Poland who opened its doors and homes to people from Ukraine. Why are other Arab counties with similar religion and cultures not helping with shelter?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/wireStory/fact-focus-misinformation-israel-hamas-war-flooding-social-103871824

It was only after this that I suddenly realised nobody would ever respond "but but but" to the horrors Hamas committed last weekend if the victims were anything other than Jewish or lived in any state but the Jewish one. And that was before the retaliatory attacks on Gaza. We knew they were coming, of course, but the "but but but" began before they did. It began immediately, while Hamas were still raping, kidnapping and murdering.

I feel like scales have fallen from my eyes. I can't un-see it.

They don't want a repeat of the six day war

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1712434217622106227/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1712434217622106227&currentTweetUser=CNN

Why would you start a thread on a topic that you obviously know so little about? Why would you think AIBU is the correct place to try to educate yourself? And why would you think a time of great tragedy is the most opportune time for you to ask public questions?
This is not the time. This is not the place. The lack of decorum and respect from people who obviously have given no thought to the issues and have no knowledge of the situation (apart from what they have gleaned from tabloids in the last few days) is breathtakingly crass.

@Mustardseed86 link showing as not available

Laughing at the problem being that Israel needs to start talking and checking its privilege. Do you know how many times Israel has proposed a 2 state solution? Do you really believe that Hamas have any intention of discussing anything? Beheading babies one day and sitting around the negotiating table the next. Yeah right.

Except many are supporters of Hamas .

No-one wants hamas to sneak into their country, many arab countries enjoy bashing Israel with it’s treatment of Palestinians but simultaneously don’t actually want anymore Palestinians in their country. Probably to do with that time the PLO tried to assassinate the king of Jordan (twice), apparently helped the Iraqis during the gulf invasion of Kuwait and other general moving in and then launching operations against Israel. I think most countries really do not want the hassle of needy refugees or a fragile security situation.

The reality is it’s difficult to filter out non combatants . It’s shit for gazans, really really shit, they literally have nowhere to go. It wouldn’t take much to create safe zones for women and children (least likely to be actual combatants) still in Gaza but under the protection of Egypt. It would also make it easier to administer aid to those groups, food, medical attention etc.

@NotSuchASmugMarried But Gaza has a border with Egypt. They could use that.

My understanding is that there is a wall along the border of Gaza and Egypt and the only border crossing is closed. Gaza is sealed off by buffer zones and civilians there can’t leave as and when they want. I think in usual times they need to apply for a visa to leave which can be a complex process.

In a nutshell:

• The state of Israel will do exactly what it said it will - which is, basically, to obliterate Gaza! It will also keep on maintaining that it is a democratic state (totally true, too - so long as you discount the millions of disenfranchised people 100% under its control). They will kill a (rough order of magnitude estimate) metric shitton of Palestinians - including a lot of children (hard to avoid if you happen to be bombing the living daylight out of a place where 50% of the population are under 18), and, in the end, given that an estimated 1.2k Israelis have died in the horrifying attacks, you can expect no fewer than 3k dead Palestinians - nothing less would do for Bibi and his cronies!
• Isreael will claim the moral high-ground, claiming total BS we have seen on this very thread such as "oh, but: we are not Hamas - we warn civilians"! That is a) totally meaningless, if you happen to know (and they do!) that said civilians have no safe space to flee to and b) no valid defence under international law - Geneva IV, which is particularly pertinent here specifically emphasizes the issue of poroportionality, and the Isreaeli government just will not give a single fuck!
• Hamas, meanwhile, will give about an equal number of fucks and will keep on fighting back for as long as they manage! PP are perfectly right in saying some of their leaders are safe and okay in other countries!
• They will also, in absolute terms, totally lose this war!
• But then, being the cynical arseholes they are: they knew that to begin with! Say about the Hamas leadership what you want - but they are not criminally naive! They never expected to come out militarily victorious against one of the most powerful armies in the world!
• A lot of people will die (as things stand, and as per my best guess: the majority of civilian deaths - a horrifying, unjustifiable number! Just so we are clear!) on the Israeli side are probably over. Palestinians have not quite met their "quota" yet!
• Future Israelis will learn about these events and grow up with the stories about them as an example of "they want to drive us into the sea - and that is why we cannot let them thrive! It would be a holocaust!" as a narrative! And they will grow up afraid of and willing to kill Palestinians because they think they have to, unless they want to be killed themselves!
• Future Palestinians will grow up to hear about the brave heroes who dared to stand up to the oppressor - and how said oppressor retaliated against the bravery of a few by punishing the many. Which is why they can never be trusted! And, would it not be great, if such bravery still existed today?
• And the cycle will continue!

I agree.

While we're at it, Settlers need to be stopped from throwing rocks at young Palestinian children's heads as they walk to and from school. And from forced expulsions of Palestinians from their homes in occupied East Jerusalem. And from brutally invading Al-Aqsa Mosque compound during Ramadan. All with the support and participation of the Israeli Police.

None of that justifies Hamas terror, torture, rape & murder. It does though deserve a much higher profile in Western news services. Much of this is buried in UN observer reports - not considered newsworthy enough on a day-to-day basis.

I was thinking from a military point of view, I understand what they're doing. I was a bit surprised myself when the UK and US came out with such unequivical support because of all the reasons you've just stated. But I understand why they're doing it.

Oh, sorry. It was Antony Blinken speaking about the images he's seen of the Hamas atrocities, and his own grandfather and step-father's experiences during the Holocaust. The shock and sadness in his face was quite visceral.

This.

£22 Billion in aid spent on weapons, not peace, not improving the lives of Palestinians whilst the leaders of Hamas puppet their people and sit back watching

No, if Hamas hadn't decided to behead children, rape girls, then kill them and burn alive others, then Israel wouldn't need to bomb Gaza to destroy Hamas, killing civilians in the process.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of this on going and long term conflict, what Hamas did is pure evil.

You are an apologist for Hamas that is what's disgusting.

depends how far back you go.