To be sad about tomboy?

[NC4Obvs]

NC obviously

Just wanting an anonymous space as I'd never voice my feelings aloud and won't. But also want to ask the question.

10 year old DD for the last couple of years has wanted hair increasingly shorter and not wanted or worn any feminine clothes.

Bright, funny, healthy, happy child who is fully loved and no resistance met to these requests.

The last couple of months when seeing photos or catching a glance from a distance I realise that there's nothing other than if you heard her name that would make you think she is a girl. Assumption would 100% be boy.

She's not said anything about being mistaken for a boy, again she's chosen this look and so I don't think would be upset if she was, and her happiness is paramount so I'm not going to bring it up. She's popular and loves her sports and friends etc.

But. If you've been in the same boat. Did it make you feel a little sad? I know it's unreasonable. It's only hair and clothes. But it's when I see photos of her when she was little it feels like that child is a totally different person.

Again, her happiness is above others' opinions of her hair/clothes/hobbies and I'm very proud of anyone who has the courage to be their authentic self, I never did.

So I know it's my issue that my preference is girls to be girly.

But would to hear from mums of similar kids to say if they've felt the same.

You're being stroppy now. You need to let this go. She's 10. She's happy. That's all that matters.

Try and ask yourself what her being more traditional girly would actually achieve? The only thing I can think of is other people's perceptions of her, including yours, and that really shouldn't matter.

My son is 5. He likes dolls, wearing dresses, and has long hair which he does not want to have cut. It's nothing I've done. It's just what he likes. Did I picture before he was born that he'd be into cars and bikes? Yes. That's gender roles for you. He's happy. And that makes me happy.

I was a huge tomboy when a child , played with action man not Barbie , always in jeans / T shirts etc .

After puberty and an interest in boys I totally changed , make up , dresses etc

Don't panic OP all is not lost yet .

Your daughter's choices are totally valid, as is your decision not to challenge her choices, and your private feelings about it.

The one thing I would say is lay some groundwork before it's too late so she knows that choosing "boys" clothes/hairstyle does not equal being a boy.

Because at secondary school if she maintains her style she will have people (staff, students and social media) influencing her who'll want to tell her maybe she's trans. There's an absolute epidemic of 12-17 year old girls suddenly identifying as trans because they don't fit in with feminine stereotypes. As I assume you would prefer your daughter stay well away from hormone treatments, breast binding and thoughts of surgery, I'd be keeping a very keen eye, especially on what she's seeing online.

That was me! I had curls and longish hair as a toddler, I hated having it brushed. As soon as I could voice my preference, I had it cut very short. That continued until 12 or so.
Nice shirts were itchy, dresses unpractical. I wore only pants (by that, I mean trousers). Did not have pierced ears or any other female signifiers other than my name.
My mom and grandma only wore skirts and were probably a bit puzzled at me. However, despite my clothing and hair choices, I always felt 100% a girl.

Once puberty hit, I grew my hair out a bit. I still have curly hair, but know how to condition and brush it, something that was lacking when I was a small child.

Are you worried about her gender identity, OP? Nowadays kids know and hear a lot more than people my age growing up where I did (Southern Europe). Let her take the lead and listen to her. I can only speak for myself: it was purely a practical issue, no gender dysphoria.

You aren't a monstrous person at all . Clearly not on MN because it's not representative of most people in RL . There's nothing wrong at all in voicing your thoughts and many would feel the same . MN is not a safe space though .

Definitely. And to stop reinforcing gender 'norms'. When my DD was younger i would buy her 'boy' toys and 'girl' toys...also my GS he wanted a doll and toy pushchair, DD bought him that. Raising aware kids.

I completely understood your OP. You haven’t voiced this to your DD. You clearly said that you just wanted to let it out on an anonymous forum! It’s ok to feel like that and it’s absolutely ok for your DD to be the way she is, which may change or may not. You can’t say anything to anyone in real life and that’s what this forum is for!

That was me until I hit puberty!
to be fair I was not enjoying being female until I was 35… I now love it
i wanted to be George of the Famous Five…

i understand your worry, and sadness. Thank you for allowing your daughter to come to terms on how she wants to be a girl…

Hey OP
I think you successfully conveyed that your relationship with your dd is about her happiness not her looks,
and I think it’s OK to have the thoughts and feelings that are experiencing !
my dd has done things / worn things that ininwardly I have thoughts and feelings about that I wouldn’t share with her, as its not appropriate or required
i get where u are coming from

I was a tomboy and when I was a teen my mum expressed regret that she never got to do makeup with me - bit weird imo but I'd assume you're not alone.

As an adult I wear women's trousers and shirts/jumpers, never dresses unless it's like to a wedding. I wear my hair long but don't do anything with it and I never wear makeup, ever.

It’s not enough that you wouldn’t voice your feelings out loud. You really should examine why you feel this way to begin with. Your true feelings will seep out and your daughter will know you disapprove of her.

I'm a very girly woman and have been since I was 15/16. As a child I sometimes wore girly stuff and sometimes I preferred jeans and a tshirt. As a young child sometimes I played with traditionally girl toys and sometimes boy toys (probably because I have a brother). I grew out of it obviously.

I do worry about children nowadays (I'm in my 20s now). I probably would've been labelled as non-binary even though I am definitely not. It's harmful that children nowadays are told that you have to like girly things to be a girl and it's not OK to like girl and boy stuff.

Your priority seems to be her looks not her happiness

Bollocks. Your priority should be working on your comprehension skills. Or being less of a cow.

I was the biggest tomboy ever.
I honestly thought I genuinely wanted to be a boy (this was before the fad of trans too).

But it made me happy.

I then went the other way as a teen and turned into a bit of a tart with extra skimpy clothes and make up.

This may be your DD forever or it may be just a phase.
Either way, you need to look past her looks and see that she’s happy and healthy which are the most important things.

Ignore the pile on OP, it was obvious in your post you know it is your issue to get over, and also that you have not put your feelings on your daughter and are allowing her to express herself however she wishes, which is top parenting in my book!

As much as we might want to avoid stereotypes for our children, the vast majority of us grew up surrounded by them so I think it most of us probably imagined something pretty stereotypical ourselves when we found out the genders of our baby, even without realising it. It's ok to feel a bit disappointed when all those day dreams don't come to reality, especially when you recognise it as your own issue, which you do.

To explain more what I mean about some stereotypical expectations being almost inbuilt- I've actively tried to avoid stereotyped toys for my son for example... I still found myself looking up football rather than ballet when I considered finding an "active" activity for him though, until I gave myself a shake and realised it should be up to him and i shouldnt assume!
(And actually, I would be a bit disappointed if he chose ballet.... but only because I would find it harder to pretend I enjoyed watching it!!)

I was a tomboy and still am a tomboy at almost 40. My mother likes to comment, she didn't when I was a child, but compliments only when I presented (somewhat) how she liked started, and got worse as I entered adulthood. She has a girly girl already but still doesn't like me for me.

I think you need to look at why you feel this way before your daughter figures it out as it will be hard to keep hidden forever.

You can't help what you feel, but when you know it is unhelpful to you or your family you can investigate why.

You've clearly got a belief that girly is better than tomboy - the question is why do you believe this?

Ultimately you're less happy than you could be because you have bought into stereotypes. That seems a shame for you. You can try to change your daughter (please don't!), see if you can adjust/challenge your stereotyping views, or accept the unhappiness.

I would be a bit concerned she gets sucked into the whole trans thing. But other than that I really wouldn't care about this as long as she is happy.

I wonder if you're living through your daughter too much, and a bit over invested? It seems to me that if you were content in your own life you wouldn't care so much about your daughter's looks and interests. It's easy for mums to give up on themselves and end up.living through their children's achievements. If you like make up and feminine clothing, claim that for yourself rather than wishing your daughter would be into it.

YANBU.
As long as you don’t show it - which you clearly don’t - there’s nothing inherently wrong with being disappointed in our children’s choices. We can’t help how we feel. Both my teen boys have that ridiculous fashionable hairstyle of a big curly mop of a fringe. I think it looks awful, but I trashed my hair as a teen too, so that’s life!

It’s interesting that some people think the word “tomboy” is wrong, but I disagree. Much better for girls to be thought of as tomboys, as they were in my day, than for them to assume that if they want to wear jeans and climb trees, then that must mean they’re actually a boy, or non binary or whatever.

I would be less concerned about how she looks and focus on trying to steer her away from trans identities. If you make out she looks, acts or dresses like a boy she may go 'you know what, maybe I am a boy?' You don't want her to go down that road.

Instead emphasize she is a smart, clever, funny powerful girl. She looks smart, she looks powerful, she doesn't have to wear a dress and long hair to be beautiful. That she can like all the same stuff that boys like and that it doesn't make her less of a girl.

Op I would take this to heart. Not trying to be down on your comment pp but that’s just a bit unfair to literally shame the op. She has feelings and emotions and she can’t help that. It’s not shameful. It would be if she was actually making her daughter feel sad because if it but she isn’t. She’s being supportive.

op I was the same. Total tomboy. Wanted to be a boy. Felt like I wasn’t a girl. Obviously nowadays I’d have been pushed into transitioning and teachers would have been “affirming” these views. In the end I grew up, accepted that I was a female bodied person and that I could wear boy stuff, girl stuff, anything I want stuff. maybe this’ll happen to your daughter. Maybe she’ll, such is the climate these days, transition but like you said, you’re being supportive. And that’s what matters.

You tell her she’s lovely and beautiful and kind and funny I assume anyway. same you would with any male or female child. So i think it’s just a case of letting time pass and your expectations realign to match the child you have currently. We all have to do this. I we all have ideas of the relationship well have with our kids. Or how they’ll be. And it’s never how we think it going to be. For example, for me I had always pictured creating a beautiful nursery room for my child - however when they were born I was broke and homeless. Then we moved and had no spare room. Then we moved again and had a room but it was already to the point my kid was picking their own stuff and demanding walk colours. It made me (makes me) sad because I missed out on that dream (expectation). Does it matter in the scheme of things? No of course not. Is it shameful to have imagined something and feel a sense of loss when that turns out to not be reality? No of course not.

This, so many times over. It's a term which somehow implies that having short hair and loving climbing trees and wearing trousers is somehow not girly, when actually these traits shouldn't be seen as any "less feminine" than wearing skirts and loving ballet and unicorns. All if these characteristics are just expressions of a personality, and moving away from stereotypes in how we express ourselves can only be a good thing.

Your daughter sounds amazing OP, how lovely that she can express herself as she chooses and that she's confident to do that.

@NC4Obvs
I admire your honesty and I really feel for you. If you can’t open up on an anonymous forum about things you are rightly keeping to yourself without receiving nasty, unhelpful comments then it’s a sadder world we live in than even I thought.

I have no answers, if you feel sad then you do, you can work through this, and keep being an amazing mum.

Mumsnet has some lovely people offering support and advice, please focus on the helpful responses x

Wish the be kind brigade would apply their mantra to all 😟

I was like that at that age op but changed as l got older - still not overly girly but def more feminine that l was at that age

Well bloody said!