To think its not okay to great gazans as israel has been

[LethargicButAwesome]

Gaza has no food, no electricity and no water. On top of that they are being bombarded constantly
Israel has bombed the only escape route for refugees via Egypt, there is no way out
israel continues the blockage by air, land and sea - no aid can get in, no one can get out.
israel has said they will obliterate Gaza.

this is unprecedented, no matter what happens with governments or wars, you have refugee camps…safe havens…(often difficult) access to water - how are we even debating that this is acceptable? Am i the only person thinking this is the human race at its absolute worst? Its heartbreaking to watch, literally noone is doing anything - we are observing a genocide.

https://twitter.com/YasMohammedxx/status/1712436414732706064

If anyone is interested, Yasmine Mohammed is a fascinating voice in all of this. Her father is Palestinian and she is a woman's rights activist now based in Canada.

No. The Belfast Agreement was only possible because PIRA was defeated by the early 1990s.

That Agreement had much the same provisions in it as the 1985 Anglo-Irish Agreement and the 1973 Sunningdale arrangement.

But PSF/PIRA rejected both on the grounds it had the principle of consent which the Provos called "the Loyalist veto", powersharing, recognition of what they viewed as the partitionist seats of power in Belfast & Dublin, didn't offer self-determination to the Irish people as one island and the continued presence of the British Government.

According to PSF/PIRA, no Republican or Nationalist could accept it. PIRAs own words over the years confirms they viewed acceptance of the aforementioned as...defeat.

PIRA got NONE of their long held key core demands in the Belfast Agreement, but the UK Government achieved theirs in it.

This was buried in the propaganda of the peace which is why people like you believe it was a stalemate with talks providing a solution. The UK Government was following the advice in Sun Tzu's Art Of War to give the defeated enemy a "golden bridge" face saving way out.

Terrorist groups do NOT give up weapons or their ideology out of the goodness of their hearts. They must be defeated.

Spain is another example as they defeated the ETA terrorist group.

I covered this quite extensively in several threads, by the way.

So they did talk to them ?

You can be as infuriated as you like, but talking about international law is not 'bleating'. By calling it such you are just attempting to close down a difficult conversation. Presumably because you believe that only you can have the correct view point.

It is in discussing issues, that we learn from each other and begin to see where the other person is coming from, even if we still ultimately don't agree with each other. Resolutely remaining intransigent in view points, shutting down conversation never leads to resolution. Something we see both at individual level and in much wider disputes.

Indeed paramilitary prisoners were released for example as part of the process

Yes the political wing of the Ira and other paramilitary groups were signatory

But no no no two sides talking to each other never happens and never helps

I hope nobody reads this and thinks you know what you're talking about.

Not going to derail the thread by getting into it but that is bollocks.

Terrorists were negotiated with, in many cases freed and arms were handed over to achieve the GFA. Goals on both sides were achieved.

We had a whole of Government approach to ideologically defeat PSF/PIRA. The Governments would pressure Provisional Sinn Féin politically, including sporadic talks whilst the UK security forces would infiltrate & weaken PIRA.

Eventually, that begat PSF/PIRA defeat.

Do we learn nothing from history...the Jews, Gypsies etc were placed in ghetto's and systematically exterminated. Now the Israeli state (not Jews carte blanche - its a different thing) marginalised the Palestinians in their own version of a ghetto and we helped them to do it and we wonder why they fight back. Many Jews feel this way too so its not antisemitic.

While much of Gaza’s young population was born under Hamas rule, some older Palestinians who voted them in – many in frustration with corruption in the rival Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO) – have expressed regret over years of fatal repression from Israel partly stoked by Hamas militance. No one is squeaky clean here.

I don't agree with what Hamas did its horrific but then systematically annihilating masses of innocent Palestinians who on the whole didn't vote Hamas in,and much live under this brutal regime, is just not acceptable either. All in the name of territorialism. The rhetoric from the Israeli gov is disturbing to say the least and they are supposed to be the voice of reason???

The world has gone mad and I sit back watching TV and I'm thinking "Dear God.....tell me that I am not the only one that thinks this is so wrong from so many perspectives, why are we standing back and letting this happen" I'm not a politician, I'm not too politically aware but mutual slaughter is never the answer. Jew/Palestinians, all have the same emotions for their loved ones,the same need for basic human rights...how can we inflict this pain on each other....I really do despair.

@Cuddlecouch

Oh dear do not believe all of what you read on SM.

Cam you point to a single statement by PSF/PIRA throughout 30 odd years where they were fighting for prisoner releases?

No, because they weren't fighting for that at all. Prisoner releases also wasn't the concession you believe it to be as they were defeated, released on licence and can be recalled back to prison at any time. It cost the Government nothing at all.

The fact you believe PSF/PIRA and other groups were signatories to the Belfast Agreement highlights your lack of knowledge.

Not one political party in Northern Ireland signed the Belfast Agreement.

UUP leader and co-winner of the Nobel Peace Prize in relation to the Belfast Agreement, David Trimble said:

"Sinn Fein were heavily opposed to a Northern Ireland Assembly. In December 1997 it was proving almost impossible to get them to even agree to put an Assembly on the agenda. The SDLP wanted it on the agenda but they weren’t prepared to face down Sinn Fein at that stage.

It became clear very early on in the referendum campaign that there was going to be a massive vote among nationalists in favour of the agreement. And when the Shinners realised that, they did the quickest U-turn you have ever seen. And I’m quite sure that during the negotiations and during that last night, even on the day on which the agreement was voted through, they abstained. And the reason they abstained was their hostility to Stormont. They didn’t want Stormont: but it was what they got and what the people voted for and they proceeded to make the best of that situation."

Sean McDougall from the Institute of Contemporary British History said:

"In fact, Sinn Fein did not sign the Agreement – nobody did, as it was accepted on a vote. Moreover, in that vote Sinn Fein abstained, establishing for itself a unique position among those who subsequently campaigned for a ‘Yes’ vote in the referendum."

The ONLY signatures* *on the Belfast Agreement is from the British and Irish Governments. It is ONLY sovereign Governments who can sign bilateral international treaties!

You will note the Agreement itself is NOT a multilateral agreement.

See attachments.

As I argued, you cannot reason or negotiate with a terrorist group that thinks it can win. That's only possible when they're defeated. Simple as that.

I'll respond later after work.

But what do you think PSF/PIRA goals were achieved in the Belfast Agreement?🤔

Does anyone have any data on what proportion of the civilians living in Gaza actually support Hamas? Lots and lots of people are rightly saying that we need to distinguish between innocent civilians and Hamas fighters, the former being deserving of our sympathy and the latter not. Of course that's right, looking from the outside, but what would the average person in Gaza have to say about Hamas? Would they make the distinction, or do they see Hamas as their legitimate leaders and acting in their name?

I hope the Western leaders do not take the bait for WW3. This is nothing to do with us and sending aid would be used by Hamas. You may ask yourselves which leaders are supporting and why? People here are so naive is untrue.

@Highandlows if you are British you can't look at the history of Israel/Palestine and say "this is nothing to do with us", surely?

@emilysquest You know half the population in Gaza are children, and 40% are under 14? So not old enough to vote.

@emilysquest You are right. Thank god it is nothing to do with me. I do not have the burden and guilt of any of that.

I'm not exactly talking about voting, there has not been an election there since 2005 I believe. I am asking about whether there are posters who have any sense of what ordinary people in Palestine actually think about Hamas (if they were able to say freely, which presumably they are mostly not).

To be fair, Israel uses Palestinian children as shield too 😉

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinian-israel-children-idUSBRE95J0FR20130620

We need to de-escalate the situation and see the bigger picture and potential long term solution here, and that is not sitting and watching a bunch of politicians discussing if we should offer children a way to flee a war zone with no water/electricty/food like it's not the twilight zone to even quetaion that?

Not enough is being made of that tbh.

Youu are derailing the thread and not for the first time. At this moment in time I and I am sure many others couldn't care less about the GFA, Belfast Agreement and Ireland. Your posting history indicates it's a hobby of yours.

I agree @worddance
And I’m not sure why this poster keeps going on and on about Ireland in all the threads about Israel/Palestine.

Indeed.

Palestine has now ran out of fuel. There is no treatment, no electricity. People will die as a result of this from ordinary fatalities as well as directly from Israel bombing them. I have no words to describe how monstrous the world leaders are.