To think its not okay to great gazans as israel has been

[LethargicButAwesome]

Gaza has no food, no electricity and no water. On top of that they are being bombarded constantly
Israel has bombed the only escape route for refugees via Egypt, there is no way out
israel continues the blockage by air, land and sea - no aid can get in, no one can get out.
israel has said they will obliterate Gaza.

this is unprecedented, no matter what happens with governments or wars, you have refugee camps…safe havens…(often difficult) access to water - how are we even debating that this is acceptable? Am i the only person thinking this is the human race at its absolute worst? Its heartbreaking to watch, literally noone is doing anything - we are observing a genocide.

And yet here we are with the Palestinians having no free land whatsoever.

What I said is true. Are you going to explain why they refused to let the Jews have any state at all when they were being given one?

Apparently the resident Arabs didn't want to share their land with the Jews, but it was pretty much thrust on them, first by Britain, then the UN when Britain failed and it got too much for them.

Why was no Palestinian state established between 1948 and 1967 when gaza and the wb were ruled by Egypt and Jordan respectively.?

'Apparently' indeed. After several centuries of the Jews being dhimmis, second class citizens under Islamic law, legally discriminated against, wouldn't you think the least they could do to show a little remorse would have been to let them have their little state? Apparently not.

Rubbish. Jews have lived in the holy land throughout history. My family were in Palestine during the ottoman times.
At first the ottomans and then the British allowed Jews to settle in Palestine. But they certainly didn't give them land or help them any. All land was bought and paid for. Then the British turned off the tap in the 1930s and 40s to the most desperate of refugees - because they needed Arab oil.
After ww2, British just wanted out and turned the problem to the un to solve. Un voted for partition. Jews accepted, Arabs rejected. Civil war ensued. British decided to leave anyway. They leave. State of israel is declared (no one 'allowed' it, it was the decision of the Jewish community). Israel then immediately invaded by 5 armies of neighboring counties. In the.bitter war that followed (1% of Jewish community died), Israel prevailed.
There was displacement of many (but not all, many remained in israel) Palestinians and massacres on both sides (I don't know one Civil war where this hasn't happened) but in the context of the time (massive displacement and killing in India and europe) the numbers were relatively small.
However, Palestine refugees in neighbouring counties other than Jordan have not been integrated even after 75 years even though its the same culture, religion and language. Why? What is so unique about Palestine? My grandparents were ethnically cleansed from Hebron but I recognise its a Palestinian town now. I don't yearn to go back there (and I think its wrong that there are israeli settlers there)

Does anybody watch or read each others links on this thread. The rate of reply seems to indicate not.

It’s such a fast moving debate and very little time to process and reflect.

When the Palestinian leadership reject every possible peace deal over 75 years, they eventually run out of road and it is the Palestinian population they claim to represent who ultimately suffer.

Who's better off - ordinary Palestinians or Palestinian leadership including Hamas leaders?

This is irresponsible leadership by Palestinian leaders over time.

I do.

Most probably don't. 🤷‍♂️

Thanks. It’s overwhelming and disengaging as a process.

There’s obviously some really important information to assess and consider but so little thinking time.

Sometimes people debate to win other times to learn.

This is a genuine question but why should they have? Say I decided that I wanted to set up my state in England tomorrow I have English heritage, there are already some of my descendant there and I'll only take x amount. Surely England would say this is a bum deal, we already have 100% why on earth is it a good deal that you are offering me 90%?

This whole thing is so sad, so much innocent people will die and/or be displaced by the actions of those in power. We see this all over the world, human life now seems to be worthless. Power and money is held in such a high regard.

One thing I do think though, oppression breeds anger and revenge/terrorism. We cannot be naive to the basic’s of the unfortunate parts of human nature. If you treat people badly enough for long enough, some of them will be angry and will wish you harm. It’s a fact that we see play out all the time in day to day life, why do we try to deny it happens on a global scale too?

also, I’ve seen so much people commenting that Hamas were voted in. Genuinely, what do people expect when 1. they are a supposed terrorist group who rule a small vulnerable region with fear, how do they not get “voted in”? And 2. the desperation of the Gazan people must feel, is it any surprise that they vote for those who will fight for them. It’s not a democracy, it’s a nation oppressed and like anyone, they will side with whoever they feel is going to help them.

Israel is supposed to be a democratic, developed country. Not an unrecognised state, living off aid of others. If this is true, they must act as such. It is a nation that must demonstrate that it can adhere to international laws and if it can’t, it should not be considered one. What happened in Israel is truly shocking and I can understand the rage that must be felt however, it can’t and it shouldn’t be accepted/supported, in stooping to the levels of a Terrorist group.

Rory Stewart explains the beginnings of the problems in this video. Just watch the first ten minutes for a summary.

If the descendants of the ancient celts turned up on my doorstep demanding my house I'd probably object pretty strongly.

Present people only live in the time they find themselves. People never want to share land. They particularly object when it's just taken over.

Because of the centuries of dhimmitude. You'd expect a group to show some remorse for that wouldn't you? To understand why the victims wanted to ensure it could never happen again?

Your analogy is also confused. Jews were there the entire time, living as second class citizens after the Islamic conquest.

You seem to be completely ignorant of the history of the Jews in the Middle East. A common issue.

I also think it's wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Just watching the special channel 4 news-is is sickening what is happening to Gaza's. Sending ordinary citizens to the south and then bombing them there?? What the actual fuck are we all tolerating?!

OK so they were asking for charity and were declined. Thanks. I was wondering if it was that. Everyone seems to make out that they were mad to turn down such a good deal when actually it was a pretty shit deal when there is nothing at all in it for you.

I have to say as an Irish person whose ancestors went through actual genocide at the hands of the English I don't think I went knocking on Pollys door(assuming she is english) and said look I"ll just take your house and you have the garden she would be quite as understanding as she makes out she be!

Who was asking for charity? What are you talking about?