To think its not okay to great gazans as israel has been

[LethargicButAwesome]

Gaza has no food, no electricity and no water. On top of that they are being bombarded constantly
Israel has bombed the only escape route for refugees via Egypt, there is no way out
israel continues the blockage by air, land and sea - no aid can get in, no one can get out.
israel has said they will obliterate Gaza.

this is unprecedented, no matter what happens with governments or wars, you have refugee camps…safe havens…(often difficult) access to water - how are we even debating that this is acceptable? Am i the only person thinking this is the human race at its absolute worst? Its heartbreaking to watch, literally noone is doing anything - we are observing a genocide.

If we really want to talk about the treatment of Gazans, how about Palestinian child soldiers?

The UN states Hamas AND the Palestinian Authority use children as soldiers.

"Both the PA and Hamas routinely indoctrinate Palestinian children to aspire to martyrdom through armed confrontations with Israel. According to Palestinian Media Watch (PMW), “the PA operates a systematic and institutionalized policy and program to recruit child soldiers/terrorists.”

In its reports to the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) on this issue, PMW accused the PA of indoctrinating Palestinian children to admire and emulate terrorists and noted that “The PA openly admits, that the child terrorists are not acting in a vacuum, but rather they consider them to be the PA’s soldiers who the PA has sent to carry out a mission.”

The United Nations below:

"PA television (TV) broadcast quizzes children on songs with “value and meanings” which PA considers expression of Palestinian “national identity.” One of the songs depicts Israel as the “enemy” and encourages armed attacks: “I'm coming with my rifle… I'm coming towards you, my enemy… with cleavers and knives.” (January 2021).

• Official PA TV children’s program commemorated cartoonist Naji al-Ala, by sharing several cartoons encouraging violence among children, including one where Fatima (Palestinian woman cartoon character) presents an AK47 to Handala (the Palestinian refugee cartoon character) and one of her handing rocks to children. (August 2020).

• Fatah Facebook page promotes child soldiers by sharing video of Jordanian boy in military uniform holding slingshot and rifle. He wants to “shoot Jews” who killed terrorist Omar Abu Laila (killed Israeli soldier, stole his weapon and shot to death Israeli father of 12). (February 2020).

• Hamas TV children’s program interviews young children dressed in military fatigues. One child says he wants to be an engineer when he grows up “so that I can blow up the Jews.” The child host responds “Keep waging Jihad…when you grow up you will wage resistance against the Jews…” (September 4, 2015).

More from the United Nations:

"In addition, PA and Hamas educational programs routinely portray terrorists as role models and incite children to violence. For example, every year Hamas runs summer camps in which it trains children in military tactics and weapons use.

Likewise, summer camps run by Fatah and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) teach children to venerate famous Palestinian martyrs like Abu Jihad, who was responsible for terror attacks in which 125 Israelis were killed.

Therefore, it is no surprise that Palestinian children perpetrate violent attacks against Israelis and participate in violent confrontations with the goal of harming Israeli soldiers and civilians."

There is absolutely NO doubt that Palestinian children ARE taught to hate Israelis. Even worse, they're TRAINED to murder Israelis!

Remember, there is a lot of support for terrorist groups from Palestinians. Not all of them - unfortunately, a minority is not bigger than a majority.

Only the British? Really? Think you'll find quite a few countries are part of the history of Israel & Palestine.

The following excerpts have been taken from the United Nations website:

www.un.org/unispal/history/

"Palestine was among former Ottoman territories placed under UK administration by the League of Nations in 1922. "

You can see in this link which countries were members of the League Of Nations in 1922 when Palestine was placed under UK administration.

www.britannica.com/topic/League-of-Nations/Members-of-the-League-of-Nations

"UK considered various formulas to bring independence to a land ravaged by violence. In 1947, the UK turned the Palestine problem over to the UN."

Under British administration, Palestine was NOT partitioned, but you will often hear people talking as though it was!
So, we move on to the actual partition itself:

"After looking at alternatives, the UN proposed terminating the Mandate and partitioning Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized (Resolution 181 (II) of 1947)."

As we can see, the partition of Palestine was not caused by the British Government alone.

The collective members of the United Nations made that decision.

"One of the two envisaged States proclaimed its independence as Israel and in the 1948 war involving neighbouring Arab States expanded to 77 percent of the territory of mandate Palestine, including the larger part of Jerusalem. "

The Office Of The Historian in the United States says the following:

"The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948."

history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war

Whether you believe it was Israel or the five Arab nations who started the conflict, it is clear that the United Kingdom is not to blame for the partition as it didn't enact that plan.

Partition was a United Nations collective plan.

Personally, I would argue it was the FIVE Arab States who kickstarted the Arab-Israeli aka Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

It is estimated that between 30 -50% of their electricity is now provided via solar power so it is simply not true to say they have none. They are not wholly reliant on Israel for it.

Yes this poster is certainly anti-semitic.

I can barely contain my anger watching news articles and “Israel has a right to defend itself” on fucking repeat

Does anyone actually understand what the Palestinian people have been going through for years? Nobody has given a shit

@DownNative I didn't say it was only the British. I was just replying to a PP who said the conflict had nothing to do with them that if they were British that was hardly the case. They answered in a way that suggested that they were not British, which was fair enough.

@Willyoujustbequiet that is an interesting stat re the solar power, thanks. I started a thread a couple of days ago discussing, in good faith, the issue of solar power in Palestine and got a lot of very sarcastic and rude answers (among some incredibly helpful ones).

See this needs to be said on repeat over and over as its getting lost in the threads.

I was told the Egyptians want to provide fuel and food but Israel have threatened them with missile strikes. I am struggling to believe that though. The US wouldn't stand for that.

The Egyptians have been reinforcing their border to keep Gazans out.

What a load of racist propaganda

They are not bombing the shit out of innocents – they have already given a warning for civilians to leave. They always give a warning. They have to take out terrorists in one strong attempt because Hamas have had opportunities time and time again to change the situation and aid their people. They do not do this. They use the money and infrastructure to make weapons and attempt to kill off Israel. They use their own people as human shields to hide behind so the blame can lay at the door of Israel for terrorising the Gaza. None of this is true. And you are just feeding into it.

They are bumbling the shit out of innocents

Babies and children are being killed - how are babies not innocent ?

How does the elderly or hospital bound person get up and leave ?

Where do they leave to exactly?

Why would you trust an army that has been killing peoples for decades, that has dehumanised you ( called Palestinians "human animals " ) and kept you in the "open air prison" of Gaza as described by the UN.

• in any one year the Israel's soldiers seem to kill ten times as many Palestinians as Palestinians kill Israel people

It is not proportionate; it is not legal ; it is not self defence

Does a post deleted presumably for Anti-semitism need reposting again and again, @Glitterdavies?

Really?!

They’ve given 24 hours notice for more than one million people to leave. Where are they all supposed to go exactly? What about the elderly and the disabled? Are they supposed to wait to be bombed into oblivion as they physically can’t leave?

"bumbling". Lazy writing and a completely anti semitic post.

They've given them warning and will then proceed to destroy their homes so they have nothing to return. How on earth are 2 million people supposed to evacuate and where will they shelter? How will they eat? You're talking about powerless civilians including children and old people. How can anyone be so heartless?

I think it's brilliant that most of the West's leaders including our royal family support Israel. They deserve the support for standing firm against terrorism.

Anti-Semitic again.
Anyone who objects to innocent people being bombed is anti-Semitic in the eyes of these fanatical posters.

Hamas must be destroyed and that includes their terrorist infrastructure such as underground tunnels.

Where did Hamas build their network of tunnels?

Right underneath the homes of Gazans and the entrance is also inside the homes.

See the Reuters and BBC News articles. Note the map showing the tunnel network courtesy of the BBC.

It is the tunnels network that's being attacked. Not homes. You can blame Hamas for this.

BTW, it's not 2m who need to evacuate north Gaza. It's 1.1m and they need to move to other parts of Gaza. See map.

Again this ‘they made me do it’ defence. How about Israel take some responsibility for their decision to displace these people making them homeless?

If this is the only solution to get rid of hamas why don’t they offer the civilians shelter and repayment for the loss of their homes? How would you feel if someone told you to leave your home by tomorrow taking only what you can carry, never to return? Where are these people supposed to go since no one is coming forward to help them?

This is a huge humanitarian crisis in the making.

No, it's NOT a ‘they made me do it’ type of thing! Only someone with zero real life experience of terrorism would think like that.

You said: "If this is the only solution to get rid of hamas why don’t they offer the civilians shelter and repayment for the loss of their homes?"

I'm afraid your response shows you really don't understand the reality of the threat there. Would you really allow the civilians in?

Considering the reality that a majority of Palestinians support Hamas and other terrorist groups?

I don't think so.

You said: "How would you feel if someone told you to leave your home by tomorrow taking only what you can carry, never to return?"

Here, you're using the Appeal to Emotion Fallacy as a substitute for logical, rational argument.

Let me turn it round!

Hamas abuse Gazans by indoctrinating Palestinian children to admire and emulate
terrorists.

The United Nations have provided in their report more evidence of Palestinian children being used to carry out violent acts.

The United Nations tell us all many Palestinian children express desires to become a Jihadist martyr.

Unfortunately, tragically and sadly these children and teenagers are not like our children due to the Gazan social fabric as asserted by NATO StratCom COE too.

"The 2019 report of the United Nations (UN) Commission of Inquiry on the March of Return border confrontations condemned Israel for using “lethal force against children who did not pose an imminent threat of death or serious injury to its soldiers.” The report then proceeded to list the names of 17 children, aged 11-17 who were killed during the confrontations.

However, at least nine of them were documented to be affiliated with terrorist groups. Many of these expressed a desire to die as martyrs and directly participated in violent incidents close to the security fence. For example:

• M. H. (16): Photos and videos show him at the front lines, sabotaging and breaching the fence. He also was a member of the tire burning unit whose job was to create a smokescreen to help rioters breach the fence and attack Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers.

• Y. A. N. (13): Member of known Hamas family whose father is senior member of Hamas’s al-Qassam Brigades. He was with a group of youth attempting to sabotage the border fence. Hamas Supreme Leader Ismail Haniyeh and Hamas Gaza leader Yahya Sinwar attended his funeral.

• I. S. (13): Son of senior Hamas terrorist who was documented throwing stones with a sling shot towards IDF soldiers. According to his mother, the day before his death, he said “I want to go to the [border] and to return as a martyr in the path of Allah.”

• W. S. K. (14): Fatah activist who was documented at the front line of the riots. A day before her death, she told her sister “Maybe this is the last time I have with you. I may return tomorrow as a martyr in the path of Allah.”

• H. J. (14): Participated in Friday border confrontations and told his mother “Allah willing, I’ll become a martyr [shahid] fighting in the path of Allah.”

• M. S. (15): Body was wrapped in Hamas flag at the funeral. According to a Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-linked non-governmental organization, he was shot at “approximately 20 meters from the barbed wire fence and 50 meters from the main fence.”

Outside of Gaza, Palestinian children also regularly engage in violent clashes with the Israeli army and perpetrate terror attacks against Israelis. Some recent examples include:

• 13-year-old Palestinian is shot and killed by Israeli soldiers in violent riots in which rioters threw stones at IDF troops and rolled boulders and burning tires into nearby road. A number of Israelis have been killed by Palestinian rock throwers, including soldiers Amit Ben Yigal and Ronen Lubarsky, 64 year-old Alexander Levlovitz and three-year-old A. B..

• 15-year-old Palestinian is killed in clashes with IDF troops during arrests in Al Furwar refugee camp near Hebron (May 2020).

• 17-year-old Palestinian stabs and injures 22-year-old Israeli (January 2020).
• Two teenage Palestinians stab and injure Israeli police officer near Old City of Jerusalem (August 2019).

• 16-year-old Palestinian hurling rocks at passing Israeli vehicles is shot dead by Israeli army (January 2019).

• 17-year-old Palestinian stabs to death 45-year-old Israeli Ari Fuld (September 2018).
UN Watch calls on the Human Rights Council as well as UN human rights officials, including High Commissioner Michelle Bachelet and Rapporteur Michael Lynk, to publicly condemn Palestinian recruitment of child soldiers."

When you're faced with the cold, hard reality that Hamas have trained children and teenagers so well they can kill you.....what do you do?

What is YOUR solution to the conflict?

The reality is this problem is part of Egypt's refusal to allow Palestinian civilians to enter Egypt via Rafah. Other neighbouring Arab States have had problems in the past with their territories then being used to attack Israel. That presents a security problem for them.

Unfortunately, terrorist organisations like Hamas like to ensconce themselves amongst the civilian population, recruit from the local Gazan population, teach them to hate Israelis, train even children to murder Israelis and so on.

The only option is to remove and destroy Hamas. This cannot be done without civilian and Israeli Defence Force personnel deaths alike.

After that, Israel and the West can set about de-Hamasifying Palestinian society in Gaza similar to what was done in West Germany post WW2.

Doing nothing isn't an option.

The ONLY way to free generations of Palestinian children is to remove Hamas. Don't you want to save the children from the evil clutches of a destructive death cult like Hamas?!

You said: "Where are these people supposed to go since no one is coming forward to help them?"

Are you only just now noticing the fact the Arab World countries are NOT falling over themselves to help them?

Take Egypt - they absolutely do NOT want Gazans inside their borders for at least three reasons.

1. They don't want Gazans using their territory to attack Israel from.

2. Egypt don't want more refugees.

3. Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sissi said, “The threat there is significant because it means the liquidation of this (Palestinian) cause. It’s important for its people to stay steadfast and exist on its land.”

Basically, Egypt ultimately don't really care about Gazans and would much prefer the Palestinian cause to keep going. Egypt actively WANTS Gazans to stay in Gaza. Nowhere else!

You said: "This is a huge humanitarian crisis in the making."

Yes, and you can blame Hamas for that! If Hamas hadn't attacked Israel, this wouldn't be happening.

Have a look at the attachment to help you understand Legal Cause & Effect.

I don't think you thought all of these issues through.

Here is the Arab World countries. Israel is the TINY sliver of grey in the middle of all the green.

Ask yourself why they aren't doing anything.

@DownNative

You wrote a seemingly well documented reply and then you undermine your position by saying:

‘Unfortunately, tragically and sadly these children and teenagers are not like our children due to the Gazan social fabric’

Really? Even the 5 year olds? And the toddlers, the unborn babies? They are dying too.

How are our children so different that they deserve to live? Western, relatively rich, living in a safe country, white, non-Muslim?

My argument is not undermined at all.

You're failing to comprehend the reality that children in Gaza are raised to become a Hamas soldier.

It's like you've blatantly ignored the UN on this.

The UN states Hamas AND the Palestinian Authority use children as soldiers.

"Both the PA and Hamas routinely indoctrinate Palestinian children to aspire to martyrdom through armed confrontations with Israel. According to Palestinian Media Watch (PMW), “the PA operates a systematic and institutionalized policy and program to recruit child soldiers/terrorists.”

In its reports to the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) on this issue, PMW accused the PA of indoctrinating Palestinian children to admire and emulate terrorists and noted that “The PA openly admits, that the child terrorists are not acting in a vacuum, but rather they consider them to be the PA’s soldiers who the PA has sent to carry out a mission.”

The United Nations below:

"PA television (TV) broadcast quizzes children on songs with “value and meanings” which PA considers expression of Palestinian “national identity.” One of the songs depicts Israel as the “enemy” and encourages armed attacks: “I'm coming with my rifle… I'm coming towards you, my enemy… with cleavers and knives.” (January 2021).

• Official PA TV children’s program commemorated cartoonist Naji al-Ala, by sharing several cartoons encouraging violence among children, including one where Fatima (Palestinian woman cartoon character) presents an AK47 to Handala (the Palestinian refugee cartoon character) and one of her handing rocks to children. (August 2020).

• Fatah Facebook page promotes child soldiers by sharing video of Jordanian boy in military uniform holding slingshot and rifle. He wants to “shoot Jews” who killed terrorist Omar Abu Laila (killed Israeli soldier, stole his weapon and shot to death Israeli father of 12). (February 2020).

• Hamas TV children’s program interviews young children dressed in military fatigues. One child says he wants to be an engineer when he grows up “so that I can blow up the Jews.” The child host responds “Keep waging Jihad…when you grow up you will wage resistance against the Jews…” (September 4, 2015).

More from the United Nations:

"In addition, PA and Hamas educational programs routinely portray terrorists as role models and incite children to violence. For example, every year Hamas runs summer camps in which it trains children in military tactics and weapons use.

Likewise, summer camps run by Fatah and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) teach children to venerate famous Palestinian martyrs like Abu Jihad, who was responsible for terror attacks in which 125 Israelis were killed.

Therefore, it is no surprise that Palestinian children perpetrate violent attacks against Israelis and participate in violent confrontations with the goal of harming Israeli soldiers and civilians."

There is absolutely NO doubt that Palestinian children ARE taught to hate Israelis. Even worse, they're TRAINED to murder Israelis!

You said: "How are our children so different that they deserve to live? Western, relatively rich, living in a safe country, white, non-Muslim?"

Are our children trained by a terrorist group to become suicide bombers?

Are our children taught to revile the enemy as NATO StratCom COE report says Palestinians are?

Are our children taught to kill a person with a gun?

No?

It's not a question of deserving to live which is yet another Appeal To Emotion Fallacy from you.

I get that you find it very hard to accept and believe that Hamas use civilians as human shields and children as child soldiers. But you have to remember Hamas is a destructive death cult.

If any Palestinian children are to have any hope of living a normal life one day....Hamas absolutely must be destroyed.

If Hamas isn't, I'm afraid the hard truth is these children will NOT live a normal life. Take a long, hard look at what Hamas have done to them.