To not understand why the Palestinians did not put up solar panel farms

[emilysquest]

This may be naive in the extreme, but I was reading the reports this morning that Gaza will run out of power today, which is horrific. I dread to think what is going to happen now to those poor people.

This caused me to think: We happen to be in the process of making ourselves completely self-sufficient (off-grid) using solar panels (and some wind), and this is in Ireland, so not a sunny place like Palestine.

My question is, given the Gaza Strip was always dependent on power from Israel, which they regard (rightly) as a hostile country, why have they not in all the years sought to become self-sufficient (or at least more self-sufficient) with regard to power, to prevent the kind of blockade they are experiencing now?

Actually an allied question for those who know would be: travelling in eastern Europe recently, especially Bulgaria, there are huge solar farms everywhere. I have not been to the Middle East (well not since I was a baby), but do they use solar at all? It would seem to be an obvious choice given the climate.

@agent765 I understand what you are saying, but having grown up in South Africa in the era of the struggle against apartheid, I tend to be cautious about who is labelled as a "terrorist" (loaded term). I know that in the end the ANC has not turned out to have been what was dreamed of, but many of the ANC/MK fighters from the days of the struggle, who were absolutely called terrorists, did absolutely believe they were fighting for the liberation of their people. (Not commenting either way on the morality of what they did, that is for another forum).

The same is probably true (I don't know enough about how much) of some of the fighters in this conflict. (This is not to condone atrocities, just to say they may have these beliefs).

Are you suggesting they ignored the warnings on purpose, so they could watch their friends and loved ones being massacred?

Or more likely the Intelligence Services get so much intel from various sources that some concerns can not be validated? It happens in the UK, god knows how many terrorists attacks that we don't know about about in this country have been stopped but sadly a few have succeeded.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I have read that the sheer "efficacy", ie overload of intelligence that the Israeli security services have all the time makes them actually very much more ineffective.

I can't imagine why there are no solar panels here..

Yes I’d be careful with suggestions on that basis

There was a good post on another thread on just how much intel they get all the time

@Insommmmnia yes I see. That is a horrible horrible picture. Is it from today? It really brings home the point many have made about the futility of putting up panels because they would always be a military target. So, a misguided plan and I see that. I suspected so from the off. That's why I was asking a question, not posing a solution.

But was I "stupid"? Others, some in Gaza, some in foreign governments, did have the same idea (as has been shown by some of the links on this thread), so although clearly naive, I had some company at least (have been educated now though).

Having installed solar on my roof the east answer to this is it’s quite expensive! Its only worth doing if you are looking long term and can pay high up front costs. I suspect they are in a position to do neither.

also there’s lots that just can’t easily be powered by solar.

It's from yesterday and fact checked by snopes and linked back to a specific jounalist so I think authentic

I never called you stupid

Exactly. Also, the Israeli government exercises total control over utilities and supplies in Gaza.

The Israeli lives are collateral damage for their longer-term goal of wiping Gaza and its people off the map. There is no way on God’s earth that the IDS didn’t know about Hamas stockpiling military weapons. I just can’t fathom such a massive failure of intelligence. This wasn’t a one-off suicide bomb but a well-orchestrated slaughter. There will be reverberations across the world as more ME countries get sucked in.

London feels unsafer.

@Insommmmnia no I know you didn't! Some people did though. I have learned a lot from this thread.

Some aid actually does go directly to solar panels - read in the papers this morning that Germany ran some West Bank projects in this area.

Bells3032 · Today 08:36

When Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005 they left lots of infrastructure including a water treatment plant etc. the first thing Hamas did when they got into power was blow it up.

That's not actually the case, Israel blew it up later. The Gazans smashed up settler's homes and flower growing greenhouses - bizarrely, when they could have used them. Under occupation, 90% of Gaza's water went to 7,000 Israelis. The Israelis blew up unofficial wells and sometimes, the house whose property it was on.

I asked a few family members about solar panels when I was back in Australia, as I was surprised there weren't a lot more of them. They said that it can actually get too hot and then the energy output isn't as efficient. And if it gets too hot they can stop working.

@Bloomingmagnolia wouldn't you say that mistakes/too broad a bandwidth are more likely that a false flag?

Mistakes on such a huge scale? Naaah.

To answer your original question OP they keep getting bombed, so ... 🤷‍♀️

Under occupation, 90% of Gaza's water went to 7,000 Israelis.

It's this kind of statistic I wish defenders of Israel were aware of.

This may have been mentioned already, but Gaza has around 45,000 acres of farmland and 200 acres of forests. It is not all densely populated cityscape.

I was at a march last weekend organized by a socialist party. I do not support Hamas in any way. I was there to show solidarity to the Palestinians and call for an end to the occupation. I would hazard a guess at least 90% of the other people were white British. Everyone and their dog knows that the events will have severe repercussions on the civilian population. I unapologetically stand with the people of Gaza, there wasn't a single mention of Hamas.

Exactly. This is what this is about. I'm so bloody sick of people saying "this isn't about land, they just want to kill Jewish people!". The Jews, Christians and Muslims lived together peacefully before the occupation. It's the OCCUPATION and the human rights violations that are the problem.

While this is almost certainly true, it is also true that Gaza is razed to the ground frequently.

That is one of the reasons the aid amount is so high - they have to rebuild from the ground up fairly often.

"When Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005 they left lots of infrastructure including a water treatment plant etc. the first thing Hamas did when they got into power was blow it up.' This is up for debate.

Hamas are evil bastards.

Ermm, have you ever played "rock, paper, scissors"? How about "rockets & solar panels"? In case you aren't aware, your solar system in a very non-sunny country will definitely be blown to pieces if hit by a rocket. Like, you know, most of the Gaza Strip is being hit by rockets???

Sometimes I despair of people...

@BlueYonder57 by that logic no-one would have built any infrastructure in Gaza at all, as it is all going to blown up by rockets now. Why bother with any facilities since they can all be destroyed. (A hospital or blood bank is no more immune to being blown to pieces than a solar panel, but they did build those).

And have you seen the earlier posts about the solar panels that were in Gaza (of which I was not aware when I write my original post), the (thwarted) plans there had been for more, and the still extant solar panels in other areas of Palestine?

I too sometimes despair of people.

They could use the solar power to provide energy for ovens, so they can eat cake.