To not understand why the Palestinians did not put up solar panel farms

[emilysquest]

This may be naive in the extreme, but I was reading the reports this morning that Gaza will run out of power today, which is horrific. I dread to think what is going to happen now to those poor people.

This caused me to think: We happen to be in the process of making ourselves completely self-sufficient (off-grid) using solar panels (and some wind), and this is in Ireland, so not a sunny place like Palestine.

My question is, given the Gaza Strip was always dependent on power from Israel, which they regard (rightly) as a hostile country, why have they not in all the years sought to become self-sufficient (or at least more self-sufficient) with regard to power, to prevent the kind of blockade they are experiencing now?

Actually an allied question for those who know would be: travelling in eastern Europe recently, especially Bulgaria, there are huge solar farms everywhere. I have not been to the Middle East (well not since I was a baby), but do they use solar at all? It would seem to be an obvious choice given the climate.

@Bloomingmagnolia that is interesting. The "real" replies to my question here (ie not those just calling me stupid or missing my underlying point) seem to have divide in to two different reasons why Palestine does not have a better power infrastructure. One that Hamas just does not care about anything like that (although, as I have said, surely it is in their interests to be able to supply their fighters now aa well as create another generation of fighters? So this puzzles me a bit). The other reason being that Israel would simply not allow the infrastructure to be developed. I guess both can be true.

@headcheffer that is interesting, I did not know that. I know of a lot of solar use in South Africa, because of all the load shedding, but I guess that is not the same level of heat.

This may be naive in the extreme

Yes, very.

I am asking why their leaders did not over the last 20 years build some sustainable infrastructure.

The terrorist group? Why didn't the terrorist group put in some infrastructure to support green initiatives and energy independence? Is this your question?

I mean, of all the things to question about a despotic group of terrorists. Of course they don't give a shit. They don't care if Palestinians civilians die. I think I'm also right in saying ISIS hasn't built many wind farms..

begs the question as to how they have been able to build their paramilitary capability while ignoring their civilian population.

Because they don't care about the civilian population.

@WeWereInParis yes I get that, a lot of people have gone down the "Hamas don't care" line. But read my recent points. Any military needs supplies. And a new generation coming up behind. If you pay no attention to these points you may win a battle but never a war.

@WeWereInParis and yes, energy independence (or an attempt at it) is surely a priority when much of your population is essentially in a landlocked enclave of a hostile power? Or should be? (Note I said nothing whatsoever about "green initiatives. That has nothing to do with my thinking here).

I appreciate you are genuinely trying to understand. Interesting to see the different opinions. History has shown how the Palestinians have been penned into an ever-decreasing amount of land. As atrocious as the actions of Hamas have been, in the long-run, it worked to Israel’s advantage as they will have control over Gaza in the coming days.

This may be naive in the extreme

It is. You sound so completely out of touch with reality, I'm not sure it's even worth trying to explain.

@pasturesgreen have you read the whole thread and my later posts? You are very dismissive of the whole very interesting thread and all the information and debate. Lots of people have been kind enough to offer a lot of very interesting information and opinion on the topic, which is exactly what I was hoping for. I assure you I am not "out of touch with reality". Please read my posts.

I am glad not everyone has the attitude that they cannot be bothered to explain what they know! No-one would ever learn anything!

@emilysquest

. Any military needs supplies. And a new generation coming up behind. If you pay no attention to these points you may win a battle but never a war.

Most of Hamas aren't military in the conventional sense, requiring all sorts of logistics trains to support tanks, etc.

Think more along the line of local thugs with AK-47s and knives.

@Bloomingmagnolia no doubt Israel will gain control of Gaza. What happens to the rest of Palestine, do you think? And to Hamas itself?

Thank you for posting OP. I didn't realise how much of a stranglehold Israel has over Palestine regarding goods of any kind. Taking away solar panels given by the Dutch government is fucking vile.

A big thank you as well to the other posters giving out information and links.

@notimagain does that not therefore mean that faced with an organised military Hamas can never win? Or will the "real" (global) powers in this war have a far greater effect than the regional battle going on now and therefore the fact that Hamas is now at a logistical and military disadvantage not matter in the long run, so they don't really care?

Sorry for copying this from an earlier post by the incredibly helpful @Rosebud21 but could the recent posts calling me out of touch with reality etc please just read this at least
Israel seizes solar panels donated to Palestinians by Dutch government | The Independent | The Independent

That looks just like a solar farm to me

Solar power Gaza

www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-access-less-40-energy-needs-locals-hope-solar-power-can-fill-gap-rcna43723

Good questions, my short take is Hamas on their own certainly can't win (define win ).

Might be best if someone much more informed on the politics of the region has a go at a long answer.

@PostOpOp Thank you! I was not actually being anywhere near as naive as I was prepared to confess to! I wonder of any of the people who were rude to me will come back?

So there is (was?) solar power in Gaza City.

Hamas has tentacles all over the Middle East. It baffles me how Israel was blind to its cache of arms despite such a strong intelligence system. Hamas will survive and be emboldened. If media reports are true, its leader is stationed in Qatar. Ordinary citizens will be obliterated in their masses. A victory for Israel.

What will happen in the West Bank?

I don't pretend to know anything more than I've seen in the news over the last few days but it strikes me that was and terrorism from ANY side is never fought or committed by men with any consideration for their people.

And it's ALWAYS men committing atrocities.

Keep the people poor and uneducated, and reap the rich rewards for themselves. All in the name of religion and/or 'for' the people.

I think theres been THREE separate sources that have said that the Israeli government were told by the Egyptian government that something was brewing in Gaza and there was a massive security concern.

This was ignored.

Why?

Well there are 300,000 reservists waiting to go in at the boarder and according to the Mail a top Israeli offical said they are going to make Gaza a tent city and bomb every building to the ground.

I think we know what's going to happen next.

There will be a genocide of people and the world will sit by and say that this is Israel defending itself.

The number of Palestinians killed by the Israeli army is almost at the number that Hamas killed and they haven't even begun their ground offensive yet.

The safe corridor for Gazans to leave has been bombed there is nowhere for them to go except await to die.

A lot of Palestinians will know that this is their last day alive and will probably being hugging their children and trying to distract them until it happens, so fucking sad.

Like being trapped in a sinking ship or a burning building.