To be sickened by Hamas

[MindfullyAmazedHorse]

AIBU to be sickened by what Hamas terrorists have done to innocent Israeli citizens?

I am not totally familiar with the whole Israeli - Palestinian situation. I don’t think anything political can explain what has happened over the last few days.

It is utterly horrendous what Hamas has done. I also think that Hamas are no friend to the Palestinians. They are bringing wrath on them.

I have read that this is the worst attack on innocent Jewish people since the holocaust, which is horrifying.

I am struggling to process these recent events.

You know that some Israeli leaders referring to Palestinians or Hamas as animals, savages and so on is dehumanising.

I have not justified any massacres or killing of civilians, certainly not of children or babies!

I abhor the violence on both sides. I have posted some of the equivalent violence done by Israel to show that it is both sides to give balance and inform.

It seems you support the massacre of Palestinian civilians and children and only abhor massacres when it is done to Israeli civilians and children.

The attack by Hamas was not unprovoked, even though their attack was an act of terrorism.

Israel has had problem with many settler, vigilante and right wing politicians either committing or supporting hate crimes against Palestinians, often supported by the IDF. The UN warned them about this two years ago.

the little video clip by @LetsResearch was very helpful.
the reality is jordan/lebanon/egypt/syria seem to have little tolerance or genuine willingness to help the palastinians. the israeli population has continually grown meanwhile hundreds of years of trying to "relocate" the palestinians has failed.
this major blow-up was always in the cards. the polka dot map division post 1960 is laughable and i cant see how anyone (it was the four neighboring states that came up with this idea, was anything more than a real joke).
in an ideal world everyone other than the two groups involved will butt out and let them settle their differences for the next 40 years.
i don't know that the western perspective of family is at all reflective of the view that the next life is better than the current one and all this was predestined by a god thousands of years ago (a belief i doubt many western nations still hold).

I think what is so shocking about it is that it is ISIS tactics (committing atrocities on civilians and filming them for broadcast on social media/threatening to execute hostages on camera) but coming from an actual government. They are letting the world know that no depravity will be off-limits and they will be proud of having committed them.

Am I the only one who sees a difference between “collateral damage” from a bomb at distance, and going in hand-to-hand and slitting a baby’s throat?

If being horrified by that massacre is your idea of “having a side” then you can carry on thinking that, because I am horrified.

They should all be playing, laughing with friends and lighting up their parent's lives. As should all the Israeli children who lost their lives this weekend. What is wrong with the world, that children's lives are wiped out like this? What's wrong with the adults?

Hamas have been disgusting.

However, Israel have also been disgusting to palestine in the very recent past. Israel has murdered thousands of innocent civilians in Palestine. Israel of tortured and killed people. Israel have killed children in Palestine.

Israel have done atrocities to Palestine. So it was inevitable that palestine were going to retaliate.

From online source: Israel has launched four protracted military assaults on Gaza: in 2008, 2012, 2014 and 2021. Thousands of Palestinians have been killed, including many children, and tens of thousands of homes, schools and office buildings have been destroyed

Your views are the reason why Israel has been getting away with genocide and war crimes for years. If anyone dares stand up for human rights of Palestinians they are labelled anti semites.
It's horrible what happened to innocents in Israel but I wish Palestinians lives were just as important to get headlines for every life that's taken by Israel on a daily basis.

Has it been really really checked it is true? I know that 1 journalist who say they have seen pictures or have talked to Israeli soldiers say that it has been confirmed and share by every news outlet but this news agency (that seems legit, not the kind that would ) posted this on twitter.

"Israeli army tells Anadolu that they have no information confirming allegations that ‘Hamas beheaded babies’"

https://twitter.com/anadoluagency/status/1711812910035407131

Sure enough the Israeli government/army would be the first to actually confirm and yell it everywhere? I have also noticed that the french presenter who confirmed it first on twitter went live on tv later and was not as sure as she seemed in her tweet?

This is fuelling absolute hatred toward Palestians, I'd like to be sure the Israeli government has confirmed it themselves, not an article citing another article, citing another article. Does anyone have a source of a video (even in Hebrew) where an Israeli official confirms it themselves?

If it is true it is the most sickening thing I have read, there is no words.

I was replying to this comment!

Both Hamas and Israel have killed hundreds of children it is perfectly clear at this point.

This is a simplified overview of the historical context:

1. Balfour Declaration (1917): During World War I, the British government issued the Balfour Declaration, expressing support for the establishment of a "national home for the Jewish people" in Palestine. This declaration was made while Palestine was under Ottoman rule.
2. British Mandate for Palestine (1920-1948): After World War I, the League of Nations granted Britain the mandate to administer Palestine. During this period, tensions between Jewish and Arab communities in Palestine grew significantly.
3. UN Partition Plan (1947): In 1947, the United Nations proposed a plan to partition Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states, along with an international administration for Jerusalem. The plan was approved by the UN General Assembly.
4. Arab Rejection: The proposal was met with opposition from Arab leaders and Arab states, who rejected the partition plan. They argued that it was unfair and that it did not adequately address the rights of the Arab population in the region.
5. Declaration of the State of Israel (1948): Despite Arab opposition, the State of Israel was declared on May 14, 1948. The declaration led to the first Arab-Israeli war.

The issue of the partition plan remains a contentious historical point. Proponents of the plan argue that it was a reasonable attempt to resolve the conflict and provide for both Jewish and Arab states. Opponents, particularly many in the Arab world, viewed the plan as unfair and a violation of the rights of Palestinian Arabs. They argue that it did not adequately consider the demographic composition of the region and the rights of the Arab population. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is complex, and the historical events leading up to the establishment of Israel in 1948 are central to understanding the ongoing tensions in the region. The situation remains a subject of intense debate, and perspectives on the fairness and viability of the UN partition plan vary widely.

Why are people so keen to give balance right now? When Salman Abedi blew up little girls at an Ariana Grande concert, people didn't pipe up about his motivations. The legitimacy of his grievances about the death of children in Syria wasn't a key aspect of the discussion. No balance was offered.

Being disgusted by Hamas or having sympathy and recognising the horror of what has happened in Israel over the past few days doesn't negate any kind of compassion for Palestinian people.

Who must you have to be to try and justify the beheading of babies?!

You know that bombs are not the only way Palestinian children die? I recognise the face of a 2 year old on the list of children posted earlier, because he was so beautiful and it was upsetting. He was shot in the head by an IDF soldier. I expect it was called collateral damage. But, in answer to your question, I don't know what the difference is. A pacifist refuses to do either.

Jesus... everyone needs to calm down.

People pointing out that Israel has, for decades, persecuted and caused the deaths of thousands Palestinian civilians and children are NOT defending or justifying the recent murders of children by Hamas. Yes, what is happening now is horrific and abhorrent, but it is not new nor is it exclusive to Hamas. This is well documented. Just because it's not current news doesn't mean it's not happening.

Referencing the decades-long persecution of Palestinians, including the resistance in giving them a solid state, is not antisemitic. It does not negate or cancel out the historic persecution of Jews. It is not one or the other. It's not a competition. The ongoing invasion of Palestine in both the Gaza Strip and West Bank, including the theft and division of Palestinian land by Israel, cannot be ignored or excused.

Highlighting that, due to the above, there is retaliation, is not justifying the actions of Hamas. It is acknowledging that this is a situation stirred and ignited by a long history. People are not being antisemitic or terrorist sympathisers by acknowledging that Israel has provoked these actions.

This is not a black and white situation and quite frankly whilst we are within our rights to be affected and upset, it is not ok to ignore actual facts or accuse people of being antisemitic, terrorist sympathisers or apathetic to the murders of children. Throwing these slurs in response to a poster simply pointing out facts or opinions on the other side is ignorant and offensive in the least.

This is a horrific and very complex situation. We should feel incredibly sorry and desperate for people on both sides. And whilst we can be shocked at the actions of some people, do any of us sat on Mumsnet really understand this complex history, or what it's like to live this? On both sides? What trauma may have happened to some of the people who see joining Hamas as the best option in their life? I don't think any of us are in the position to understand or judge any of this.

It's over. The world has now seen the reality of what Hamas are. They are Jihadi terrorists intent on destroying Israel. There can be no peace with such people. The world now sees why Israel defends itself. Hamas, and Hezbolla, don't care about Palestinian people, they only care about their distorted, evil ideology. The Palestinian people suffer because of Hamas and Hamas's actions.

You speak of it as if it were only in the past. Do you not know about the current Armenian genocide?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/03/this-is-a-forced-migration-the-ethnic-armenians-fleeing-nagorno-karabakh

I think you have completely misunderstood my post, which was a response to Toothyfruity who said “You're obviously reading propaganda from one side and became interested in this issue 2 days ago.”

Nobody is justifying this please can people stop saying this. I don't think there is anyone on this thread justifying this. People are saying that the Israelis have murdered children (not just this week) and Hamas have also murdered children. That is all.

The difference is wealth and arms. That’s it.
You have a high tech, wealthy military and you push buttons to kill hundreds.
You are trapped in a ghetto with the enemy controlling everything going in or out, and you are pushed back into Medieval weapons and no money.

Sorry are you justifying Israel killing Palestinians because of Hamas?

The reason that the Palestinians are not allowed to migrate or emigrate to those brother countries that border Gaza and the West Bank, that is Egypt and Jordan, and are also not welcomed into any of the other rich and prosperous Arab countries surrounding them, is purely political.

It is in order to leave them on the border of Israel so that there is a constant source of political propaganda against Israel as the 'oppressor'.

We can all see how well it works.

I know it was posted earlier, but here's the link again to an excellent documentary at how/why Israel was created.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001r1h6

not sure how correct or relevant this part is

Arab League's 1967 Khartoum Resolution: The 1967 Arab League Summit in Khartoum, Sudan, issued the "Three No's" policy: no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, and no negotiations with Israel. This policy influenced the treatment of Palestinian refugees in various Arab countries.