To expect my 11 year old to be able to use the toilet during the school day?

[bendy75]

Is this the norm? My 11 year old started in at secondary school last month and has had two warnings (or stage 2 - Low level disruptions) for asking to use the toilet.

I told him to try and go at break times but he tells me they are locked, confirmed today by staff when I asked, children who have a medical need can apply for a toilet pass but he does not, so has to try and go from 8.00 am until returning home around 3.00pm without using the toilet.

AIBU to be shocked by this?

@jeffgoldblum I was going off the dictionary definition, didn't realise the legal definition was different. So I will change my statement to females can sexually assault males. Still doesn't mean that every female that has sex in a school toilet is classed as rape. For it to be rape, the male has to reasonably believe that the female doesn't consent. How can a 15 year old or younger be expected to know that she doesn't consent if she is the instigator?

Your posts are becoming more like victim blaming and excusing male rapists , unless the female is much older or bigger than the male it is highly unlikely that they would be able to force sex.
There is an epidemic of girls being sexually assaulted in schools at the moment, your post comes across as tone deaf!

@jeffgoldblum there is absolutely an epidemic of girls being sexually assaulted in schools (and boys too), probably part of the reason access to toilets is restricted as adequate supervision outside classrooms cannot be given during lesson time, so cannot have students walking round the school.

But that doesn't mean there are no 15yo girls having sex by choice, and not always in the comfort of their own home.

@jeffgoldblum not victim blaming at all. I have said many times that I do not excuse actual rape cases. I am talking about 2 underage children, neither knowing any better than the other, both willingly taking part in sexual activities.
I have been a victim of rape as an adult, I would never blame the victim.
My boyfriend of 2 years did not rape me when we had underage sex.

@jeffgoldblum or maybe he repeatedly raped me for 2 years whilst I repeatedly sexuaĺly assaulted him by the exact same number of times.

Obviously two 15 years old having sex isn't always rape! Neither me or I doubt others would say it was!

I was just pointing out the obviously wrong statements that ' rape isn't just with a penis but with another object, which means women rape too'

Yes boys get assaulted too ! ( I also have a son )

But to imply that boys and girls in schools are sexually assaulted in the same numbers is also wrong and I've heard this excuse used to wave away girls and women's experiences on other threads too often to not reply .

@jeffgoldblum one poster has pretty much stated that no 15yo girl would willingly have sex anywhere but in a bed, and if she did have sex anywhere else it would have to be rape. That's why this particular conversation has started.

And absolutely the numbers of girls harassed/assaulted is horrendous (I have read the Ofsted review on peer on peer abuse) but I never said the numbers were the same, but we can't ignore the fact that boys are sexually harassed/assaulted too

@jeffgoldblum I haven't said that boys and girls are assaulted in the same numbers. My comments were in response to a poster that commented as pictured. My point being that not all sexual encounters in school toilets are rape and that even the boys could be the ones being assaulted when she went on to say that no girl would ever consent to see in a school toilet because it would hurt if she didn't get foreplay to make her wet.

I can confirm that my DDs toilets are reduced as most kept locked so every girl in year 9 is trying to use the same few toilets and so often there is no time to go and she’s rushing into our local supermarket to go after school each day. Crazy!

@Mepeepants I think a lot of posters are very confused about what rape means in the UK. Under the Sexual Offences Act it is indeed illegal for under 16s to have sex, however they CAN give consent (even though that consent is unlawful), so the charge is not rape, it is unlawful sexual activity with a child. Of course if they did not consent it is rape. Only under-13s are deemed to not be able to consent under any circumstances so the charge would be rape in that case.

@BCCoach but if 2 15yo had sex and there was no sign of coercion it is very unlikely charges of unlawful sexual activity would be brought

@BCCoach so if both are underage, would they both be charged with unlawful sexual activity with a child?

@crumblingschools well quite - it would technically be unlawful sexual activity with a child (both of them could be charged) but in reality its not considered in the public interest to charge and the chances of conviction are zero. What it is not is rape as many posters on here assert. Nor is it 'statutory rape' which has no meaning under UK law but seems to have been imported as a concept by people who watch too many American crime dramas.

Holding it in can cause medical problems for your son!!
I'd have supplied mine with bottles and told him to leave them, full, near the heads office!
I'd also be leaking this to local media.

@BCCoach thanks. You have put into legal terms what I was trying to say but was obviously failing to put my point across.

At our secondary they are locked during lessons, but unlocked at break and lunchtime. My son has been give a toilet pass due to his autism this week as he was deliberately dehydrating himself at school as not to use the toilet.

And yet in spite of that fact, and the fact that I stated that several pages ago, you continue to try to have a go at me.

Then you'll also understand why we don't just let anyone go to the toilet when they ask, in spite of them not being locked. Because we don't want kids self harming anywhere.

Absolutely vile discussion about girls being raped in schools, all of it conjecture with little or no evidence to back it up. I have been a teacher for 20 years and I have never heard of such a thing happening in the toilets of the schools I have worked in. That isn’t to say teenagers are not having sex (some are, just as they were when I was a teen), and yes that is a safeguarding issue even if they are the same age. If I was aware of an underaged youngster having sex I would be duty bound to disclose the issue to the Designated Safeguarding Lead whether it was happening in school or not. All staff do Child Protection training every year, and all staff should be aware of that.

Some of you have some very nasty ideas about what our young people are getting up to. Shame on you. The vast majority of kids are decent and staff do care about them and what happens to them. Anyone who doesn’t think that would get a pleasant surprise if they actually visited school. Teachers and children have good relationships for the most part and we don’t want children in fear of coming to school.

Imo, toilets shouldn’t be locked except at break and lunch but I have to follow the school policy (or leave). Anyway, it’s been a recent (post pandemic) thing that toilets are routinely locked. Toilet duties shouldn’t be necessary to prevent vaping and vandalising loos, but visiting the loos has always been a part of break/lunch duty. Sadly it’s very difficult to prevent bullying, but we do our best by keeping toilet queues moving and not allowing kids to hang out there (although goodness knows why some still want to!)

I do think that most students should be able to manage during lessons. That’s just part of growing up and as an adult I have to! My own daughter has heavy periods so she has a medical card. Nobody needs to know details of her cycle ffs (to the person/persons ranting on about that earlier). She is able to use accessible loos by Student Support at any time (and in fact any child may do so). It’s discretionary. There’s no way I would deny a child who was desperate to pee to leave a classroom! I just pop a note in their planner and off they go. But the school policy also allows me to deny those that would truant/vape/vandalise/bully from leaving my lesson without me looking like a complete old dragon. I can just blame the school policy. Yes, we know who those kids are.

It’s all really just common sense, and common decency. This discussion has got way out of hand!

Ignorance of the law is not and never has been a defence. Him not knowing that she cannot consent doesn't excuse him.

Sure it never happens. Oh wait, it does a lot

Toilets shouldn’t be locked except at break and lunch

So you want to lock them at the most sensible and least disruptive times to go?

This is nuts, they should all be open otherwise it's going to be like trying to get to the loo during the 15 interval at the theatre with 4 loos for a 2000 person audience and the queue down the corridor.

My back teeth floating isn't going to make me want to self-harm less and the resultant UTI is going to make my depression worse.

Oh come on now, you're jumping the shark.

I stand by that comment. @K4tm has it right when saying that she'd refer any case of children having sex to the safeguarding lead.

If your default assumption when finding out that a girl has been fucked in the loos is "she probably wanted it" then you are letting her down.