To expect my 11 year old to be able to use the toilet during the school day?

[bendy75]

Is this the norm? My 11 year old started in at secondary school last month and has had two warnings (or stage 2 - Low level disruptions) for asking to use the toilet.

I told him to try and go at break times but he tells me they are locked, confirmed today by staff when I asked, children who have a medical need can apply for a toilet pass but he does not, so has to try and go from 8.00 am until returning home around 3.00pm without using the toilet.

AIBU to be shocked by this?

Sadly @VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia , the only thing that will come even close to stopping that is fully separate sexed toilets and changing rooms, and more supervision.

You've managed to articulate what my autistic brain was struggling to find: it's about autonomy, having some control over one's own life.

If I have the ability to make choices about the little things, I feel less constrained by the rules about the big things. Schools are micromanaging kids to the smallest detail such that even hair is policed to the point that EHRC had to intervene because the policing was racially discriminatory. If the only way I can exert autonomy is by breaking a rule, I might as well break all of them. Add to this the intense resent, to the point of anger and hatred, that I feel towards the rule-setters, and you are setting me up to be an uppity little shit who will smoke in the loos just to spite you.

And I'm in my forties.

Also, what are you teaching girls about their own autonomy, control over their bodies, and right to privacy when they have to ask to empty their bladders and can be told "no" and have their period timings told to all their teachers? Not a message conducive to her having boundaries that she needs in her future relationships and sex life.

Do it. Girls matter.

So we are now doing the chicken and the egg.

Schools put rules in place due to bad behaviour, the kids act up due to the rules.

The thing is that it has never worked like that or all the the rooms and equipment that had loads of money spent on them so they look good for the kids wouldn't get destroyed in the first place.

look good for the kids

You mean look good for the governors' tours and open days?

Equipment is there to be used and will encounter wear and tear. Children should be instructed in its proper use and supervised.

I wish I could @VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia but I'm not in any position to change things .

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia do you think children don't know how to use toilets, doesn't stop them vandalising them, children are told how to use equipment but doesn't stop them breaking it. And don't you include that in your micro managing children?

No I mean look good for the kids.

Equipment is there to be used and will encounter wear and tear. Children should be instructed in its proper use and supervised.

Would you care to mansplain further?

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia I am referring to your comment that sex in loos is rape and that children cannot consent to see, and if boys are raping. So if 2, 15 year olds are having sex, who is raping whom if neither of them can consent.
Regarding the pain that you experienced with your female anatomy, that is not what goes through the mind of someone that wants to have sex. They may worry about it if they have heard that sex can be painful or they have already experienced it, but don't make out like no girl is ever a willing participant or even the 1 doing the coercion.

I think they’re exaggerating and making excuses for why they have warnings. Don’t believe it or be such a pushover

What's wrong is that you treat all the kids as vandals. They all get toilet access restricted because of a small number and this will harm them.

Like I said, burnout. When I get to the point in my job where I start thinking of all my users like the worst of them, it's time for a holiday.

Problem is that schools are turning that burnout thinking into school-wide rules and policies.

I'm female. I'm also autistic. And I work in HE for over a decade, so don't bullshit me on who that nice-looking equipment is really to impress.

The boy is raping the girl because rape, by law, requires a penis to commit. Look at Sexual Offenses Act section 1.

All this would be avoided by keeping loos single-sex.

Girls in my class who did have sex underage and stated in conversations later that they wanted it, did so in beds. Granted, this was a girls' school so they couldn't shag in school loos. What they weren't doing was shagging in bus stops, parks, phone booths, etc. The idea that a teen girl would consent to shagging in such a hostile environment beggars belief.

Your female and can still mansplain, don't like it look up the woman that invented the term.

Your Austistic, No idea what this has to do with what I posted at all.

And I work in HE for over a decade, so don't bullshit me on who that nice-looking equipment is really to impress.

I used all the equipment in my workshop for the pupils projects KS3 and KS4, So don't try and tell me what I should think or know.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia teen girls do have sex in those places, because they can’t always do it in bed (if they don’t want parents to know). Not great, not nice, but unfortunately it does happen.

And surely someone who works in education can’t be that naive

Please don't tell me you're a teacher with grammar and punctuation like that.

We already know that you are being goady and not posting in good faith, you don't have to prove it.

@MargotBamborough that response was beneath you.

Oh come on, it's pretty depressing.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia rape is not exclusively a penis but any object inserted without consent into any bodily orifice. This makes it possible for females to rape males. If no penetration occurs then it's still sexual assualt.
Doesn't mean that 2, 15 year olds having sex in a toilet at school makes the male a rapist. The male is equally incapable of giving consent as the female. So they could both be given equal consent.
Again I am not dismissing genuine cases of rape and not saying that it doesn't happen. Just that you can't claim that every female that has sex in a toilet is not a willing participant.
I had underage sex in a swimming bath changing cubicle, it was consensual with a boy that was also underage. It's called teenagers exploring sexuality.
I don't agree that it should be made easier by having unisex toilets. I also think that it should be prevented as much as possible as teenagers are not capable of making good choices and do things that they later regret.

The legal definition of rape is when a person intentionally penetrates another's vagina, anus or mouth with a penis, without the other person's consent. Assault by penetration is when a person penetrates another person's vagina or anus with any part of the body other than a penis, or by using an object, without the person's consent.
In the U.K. rape is only rape when it involves a penis , if another object or body part is used it's assault , so no a woman cannot rape !

No, rape is penile penetration without consent.

(A) also has to reasonably believe that (B) does not consent for it to be rape. Unless it can be proven that a 15 year old boy has specifically been told that any girl under 16 is not capable of giving legal consent, then he has not raped a girl when she could be ripping his clothes off as eagerly as him.
So the legal definition of rape is penetration of a penis and everything else is called sexual assault. The dictionary definition is different.
Still doesn't detract from my original point that not every girl that has sex in a toilet is raped. The girl could be the one coercing or intimidating a boy into sexual activity. Not all girls are waiting till they leave university to meet the man that they will marry.

[This makes it possible for females to rape males.]

You also posted this, which is completely false in the U.K. .

The "dictionary definition", particularly if you are looking at dictionaries such as Merriam Webster which are published in countries with a completely different legal system to ours, is irrelevant.