To expect my 11 year old to be able to use the toilet during the school day?

[bendy75]

Is this the norm? My 11 year old started in at secondary school last month and has had two warnings (or stage 2 - Low level disruptions) for asking to use the toilet.

I told him to try and go at break times but he tells me they are locked, confirmed today by staff when I asked, children who have a medical need can apply for a toilet pass but he does not, so has to try and go from 8.00 am until returning home around 3.00pm without using the toilet.

AIBU to be shocked by this?

I'm sure he WILL be made to hold it all day - is it a Catholic school? HAHAHA!

Yes, that is the alternative!

Reading through this I am dismayed at all extra responsibilities put on teachers and the horrible conditions for pupils and toilet restrictions. All bought about by a few disruptive school students, so the rest of the school has to suffer. Is this a reflection on society, the pressures our children are under with social media, bullying, lack of mutual pride in their environments, no respect for others, that schools are places where you need to be on guard.
Teachers have my full respect, this is not the world that I grew up in. School days were meant to be some of the happiest times of your life, I doubt that any child would say this now.

It is fit for use as a school!

Yes, I would doubt that they would admit they are the happiest days of your life.

Children are being made to hold their bladder and bowels for 8 hours but yes lets pivot this to a "feel sorry for teachers" thread, again.

This is one of those scenarios that, despite any headwinds faced, simply is.not.good.enough.

Hahahaha!

Also, just a small thing here, we are encouraged to drink more water as it helps with hydration and concentration and therefore learning. Children are not going to want to do this if they can’t pee easily. So, back to square one again. I wouldn’t want to be a parent of a secondary child at the moment, what a tough ride they have.

Yes hold bladder and bowels for 8 hours - that's a record!

I honestly despair of some on Mumsnet!

@bendy75 I'm wondering why your username is Bendy? Are you hypermobile? If you are, it's likely your children will be too and with that comes a good chance of bladder & gastro issues.

But, in general yes a lot of schools are barbarians about using the loo.. other countries don't have this 'rule' - you just excuse yourself quietly, use the loo & return quietly - the 'messing around in the loos' wouldn't be such a thing if it wasn't forbidden. If going to the loo was normalised. Etc

All those crying that locked all day loos just wouldn't happen are either ignorant, have kids who don't tell them or are very lucky!

My sons school also has ridiculous rules about blazers worn even in 30 degree weather and only black everything - shoes, socks - coats! - perfect for walking to school in the dark eh ...

Education needs dragging out of the 'prepare them for the factory floor' era.

Look at how many things are being spoiled by the few: Visits to cinemas and theatres, trees destroyed, wildlife killed, arson, antisocial behaviour, graffiti, bullying, windows smashed, loud noise tormenting neighbours etc. They come in all shapes, sizes, ages, socioeconomic groups and include both sexes.

They live amongst us and make society a miserable place to live in. Money gives you the opportunity to avoid them, this includes private education of course where their behaviour is possibly kept under control by parents.

We've smugly jettisoned the usual social controls which kept a lot of this behaviour under control: Parental discipline, rules which were enforced, youth offending placements, proper sentencing, religion, community shaming and pressure, prison etc.

So we get what we wished for. A liberal, free, kind (hah), tolerant (hah) society where bullying and nastiness rules, everyone is miserable/mentally ill/distressed and the more destruction the better. I hope it's been worth it.

Fortunately I don't have Hypermobility, Bendy was the nickname I was given by the rest of the lasses in my football team, I was quite good at bending the ball into the goal, and the nickname seems to have stuck.

My sons school also has the ridiculous rule about blazers too, the transition from a friendly village primary school to a big town secondary has been somewhat of a shock, I do understand why some of the rules do exist but some do seem arbitrary and not always with the children's welfare in mind.

If you don't lock your loos then this thread is not about you.

Some schools may not lock toilets but they may restrict access during the day. Also @MrsHamlet is a secondary school teacher so has more understanding of why schools are having to resort to these measures

It will hurt if she's not lubricated, regardless of penis size. A single finger will hurt without lube. Source: My own experience, I was born with female anatomy.

School loos should be sex-segregated. There should never be boys in the girls' nor vice-versa then rapes would not happen in the loos.

I was the suicidal self-harming child so actually yeah I do know what I'm talking about.

@T1DMama This is what I was referring to when I talked about mixed loos with common sinks.

So all the teachers are made aware of all the girls period status/issues from one week to the next ?

On the phone thing , my daughter's school has some thing that means there is no signal in school, she has to go outside quite a far way for it to work, surely this would be easy to implement?
And toilets are not rationed!

Thing is, we all went to secondary school and can remember how we and our peers behaved. So what I'm not understanding is why kids these days are described as behaving so badly or why rules are so much more authoritarian now.

I'm left wondering if the draconian rules cause the acting out. If you are going to treat people like misbehaving scum no matter how they behave, they've got no motivation to behave better.

Even the worst prisoners can earn privileges for good behaviour. A school child doesn't earn "own choice of socks" or "can take off blazer without asking" privs for good behaviour, so what's their motivation for not being a little shit? Why are children treated worse than prisoners in this regard?

A signal jammer. That doesn't stop the kid from filming his best mate raping one of the girls, but it does stop the parents from saying "but what if he needs to call me at lunch time?"

Bearing in mind that I didn't know my own cycle, I don't see how that can work.

We didn't ask to use the loo unless it was urgent, and our teachers were good at detecting the one mickytaker in my year.

Exactly it’s ridiculous. They need to be able to go to the toilet when needed without needing to explain themselves.

This.
I think there is so much truth in this. Treat people (ie children/teens) like criminals and how do you think they’re going to act?

Kids have so little say in their school life and so little freedom it’s no wonder they’re acting up more and more. The draconian rules are just breeding bad behaviour. And so the cycle goes on. Combine with stressed out teachers, chronic underfunding and an outdated curriculum it’s a perfect storm.