To expect my 11 year old to be able to use the toilet during the school day?

[bendy75]

Is this the norm? My 11 year old started in at secondary school last month and has had two warnings (or stage 2 - Low level disruptions) for asking to use the toilet.

I told him to try and go at break times but he tells me they are locked, confirmed today by staff when I asked, children who have a medical need can apply for a toilet pass but he does not, so has to try and go from 8.00 am until returning home around 3.00pm without using the toilet.

AIBU to be shocked by this?

Haven't read the whole thread but I teach upper KS2. Some children are downing far more water than is necessary (yes I know children need to stay hydrated) and are going to the toilet far more times than necessary during the day. I'd never prevent a child from going but really, they do not need to keep QUITE as overloaded on water.

Have you had many complaints from parents?

My child was in a performing arts type of activity when they were approx eight years old. Asked the teacher if they could use the bathroom and was told 'no' - they could only use the bathroom when the two hour class had finished. DC peed themselves as did two other children and was crying with embarrassment when I went to pick them up.

Later that evening, I complained and the teacher apologised but DC never returned.

I would go straight over your head and to the BOM if necessary to complain about you and insist my child had access to a bathroom if you were teaching them.

A parent would have their child removed if they locked the toilet door and not allowed them access. When I was at school back in the late 90's early 2000's all a teacher had to say was no wait until break time. This is why I take no lectures from any of these so called professionals because they are abusing our children physically, emotionally and mentally. You're better off putting your children in prison they will get treated far better.

No you can't justify abuse.

What on earth..? Is denying a child the use of a loo during lessons some sort of ham-fisted attempt at character-building? How are children supposed to learn when all their concentration is focused on holding their bladder or, worse, still bladder and bowels?

There will always be pupils who are obviously abusing the system by making too many requests to use the loo as a means to avoid unpopular classes, but most teachers can spot them a mile off.

Saying the loos are locked because of staffing issues is just lame - or have school loos also become the subject of restrictive, and sometimes very silly, H&S rules?

Wading in here …

Toilets are locked during lessons because:

vandalism
vaping
kids meeting up with their mates during lessons to do vandalism and vaping

They are opened at break and lunch by teachers on duty who the monitor who goes in and out:

to prevent vandalism and vaping
to prevent kids hanging out (it’s warmer than outside)
to prevent bullying (prime spot)

Teachers can be delayed getting to toilet duty or off sick, so toilets are not opened. Which is completely unacceptable, but happens. Teachers hate toilet duty. It shouldn’t be necessary. It’s a sorry state of affairs.

Breaks and lunch are only half an hour in some schools, which isn’t enough. Queues for girls loos are particularly bad and some girls can queue half their break. They also have deal with periods. Girls are less likely to vandalise the loos than boys, however ‘hanging out’ is worse and bullying just as bad.

On vandalism, it only takes 2 seconds to draw a nob on a toilet door, but worse, sinks get broken off walls and toilet seats cracked due to people standing on them to retrieve vapes from ceiling tiles. This can amount to £100s/£1000s damage.

It’s all completely unacceptable. But this is where we are. Once again, the good kids suffer because some kids don’t know how to behave themselves. School budgets shouldn’t be spend on dealing with vandalism and as a teacher I’d rather not be hanging out outside the toilets, thanks.

Complain. Complain to your school. Complain to your Education Authority. Complain to your MP. Complain to your kids. Tell your sons and daughters to treat the facilities with a little more respect and tell them to complain to the school about the kids who are causing these problems because they know who they are and vandals and bullies can be dealt with.

Mine aren't in secondary but I expect this is a miss-communication. Check again with the school for clarity around when they are locked, when they are open and what the school policy is about accessing the toilets. If they aren't easily available to use, then I would complain and take it up with the governors, maybe get support from other parents - I can't imagine any parent wants the bathrooms to not be easily accessible. If they are accessible but your son has misunderstood then ask the school to send some clearer messaging to the kids as he probably isn't the only one to be confused.

Katy123456
I know not everyone has time to read full threads especially the long ones but there is an option to click under the OP's name and select all. That way you can see all their posts and updates. It makes it easier to keep up with the thread and offer useful advice/opinions.

Well raise hell then. Go to Ofsted. This isn't fair on your son.

Having to ask to use the toilet is just bizarre. I can understand children letting teacher know where they are going, but ffs policing bio needs must cease.

@Katy123456 its not a miscommunication. Read OP’s updates.

Take your son out of school immediately and make a stand!! This is barbaric!!!

Currently if you tell a child that they have to wait till break (or change over) the teacher will get a lecture on human rights from the child.

The locking of the toilets bizarrely prevents that.

I personally don't agree with locking the toilets, but the school I worked at spend thousands redesigning the toilets, putting cameras in and they still got vandalised within the first week of the pupils being back in from the holidays.

This is why I take no lectures from any of these so called professionals because they are abusing our children physically, emotionally and mentally.

Good to know that you are not OTT about this. (sarcasm)

Those of you saying that toilets weren't locked 20 years ago - school was very different 20 years ago. If you broke the sink off the wall, you'd have been suspended, probably excluded and your parents would have gone nuts at you.
Today the parents refuse to even pay for it, even when their kid readily admits it was them. The most the school can do is say 'that was naughty, don't do it again' and send them to 'nurture' for a few hours.

Half the time most of the toilets in our school were locked anyway as they were unusable due to vandalism and it takes several weeks for the authority to sort out someone to fix it.
We 'trusted' the pupils, got their views, spent a lot of money on making the toilets really nice for them, nice soap to wash hands, good mirrors, decent locks that couldn't just be kicked in or opened with a bit of effort, nice paint etc etc etc. As I said before it was less than a week before we had to close them due to severe damage - not talking a cock drawn on the wall, I'm talking sink ripped off the wall, pipework damaged, flush handle pulled off, toilets blocked with god only knows what and the floors flooded.
Now they are all locked at break and lunchtime. Single cubicle toilets are available via the signed for keys, and available throughout the day. Pupils are less likely to truant and go to the toilet every lesson since they have to see a member of SLT or an HoD to get the key, and repeat visits will be noticed. There aren't 10 kids in there every lunch intimidating everyone else and making them essentially unusable anyway.
Considering schools can barely afford paper and jotters nowadays - who do you think is going to pay to fix the vandalised toilets once a month?

Why the fuck should staff have to do 'toilet duty' - what insanity is that? Don't teachers get a lunchtime too?

Alwaysgiraffe

I think that people forget that 20+ years ago if you damaged the toilets you would get beaten up by the smokers as it was their regular hang out.
Much as people hate smokers they did a good job of keeping the toilets vandal and bully free.

This is a huge bugbear of mine. Children should always have access to a toilet when in school. Locking toilets is not the answer to other issues. It is deprivation of a human right. I had similar issues in school 30+ years ago and it had a lifelong impact on me.

Preventing children from accessing toilets in school can cause lifelong anxiety issues and can also exacerbate medical issues.

It is totally unacceptable in my view. I have told my kids that they have my full approval to always demand access to a toilet in school (as long as they are not taking the piss - excuse the pun)

I don't understand why any parent would send their child to a school if no toilet available? I certainly wouldn't, I would be worried sick all day for them.

When I was in secondary school approx 1994 we had one teacher who totally refused any child access during the lesson saying that if you needed to go toilet you'd have to go to the doctor first to bring a note. She spoke about it every lesson, it was such a power thing with her. I can still remember her name and she was not respected by any student.

Why now though? We could've done all those things except vape back in the day, and some did. But nothing to warrant removing toilet access for everyone.

I went to secondary school in the 8ps and we weren't allowed free access to toilets in lesson time. Even in middle school and first school lesson time toilet trips weren't really allowed unless it was an emergency, and definitely by secondary. Emergencies and toilet pass - could go, but it was monitored and there were pastoral staff on corridors.

They were open at breaks and lunch though. So the longest you needed to wait would be about 1 hour 40 in my school.

This whole toilet madness is a strong argument for a good private school.

I agree. It’s a national scandal. They just seem to contrive to make all kids miserable and pay for the fact that some of their cohort are untrustworthy and disruptive. No wonder attendance and mental health are the two biggest issues in secondary schools.

I’d let mine stay at home and do oak academy lessons. Fuck the school. If they can’t treat my DC with humanity they’re not going in.

I suppose one good thing to come out of this thread will be the reduction in class sizes due to those now home schooling.

Whatttttt fucking hell

Schools sound like medieval bear pits now. Why do these people commit so much vandalism?

Good to know that you are not OTT about this. (sarcasm)

No not over the top at all @FrippEnos I am protecting my children. The levels your school has taken yo control their children in putting cameras in bathrooms and I am over the top. That money that they spent putting cameras in bathrooms could have been spent on educating and stimulating the children. There's no passion to teach children only control. You don't agree with their rules but you are happy to put up with it and keep your mouth shut.