To expect my 11 year old to be able to use the toilet during the school day?

[bendy75]

Is this the norm? My 11 year old started in at secondary school last month and has had two warnings (or stage 2 - Low level disruptions) for asking to use the toilet.

I told him to try and go at break times but he tells me they are locked, confirmed today by staff when I asked, children who have a medical need can apply for a toilet pass but he does not, so has to try and go from 8.00 am until returning home around 3.00pm without using the toilet.

AIBU to be shocked by this?

As a nurse married to a doctor I will tell you this is not ok on any level! Are the teachers prevented from using the loo? Have they learnt to hold their pee for seven hours? It goes against human rights for access to a toilet to be denied and if the queues are so large at break-time kids run out of time, then the loo’s need to be open all day long to prevent urinary problems. Sounds more like a concentration camp than a school!

The parents and students need to stop just being unhappy about it and start being very angry about it until the policy is changed.

This is insane! I get the concerns about incidents in toilets and not completely sure what the solution is. But to not have access to a toilet until lunchtime (at which point the entire school wants to use them) without having to go and ask for them to be opened (which I imagine is a nightmare for staff and pupils alike) is crazy. I am pretty sure this would not be allowed in a workplace, I definitely need the loo before midday and I don't have a specific medical need! This didn't ever happen in my school, we could even go in lessons if we asked.

Op I think I'd complain about that. Some kids will have left for school before 8am not able to access toilets until lunch.

Surely they could get older kids, prefects, captains whoever to monitor antisocial behaviour in toilets.

I don't for a second belief children's behaviour is worse now than it was in the 80s and 90s.

As a teacher, I often have to hold for hours

It wouldn’t be allowed in a workplace, but it seems we’re not as bothered about the rights of children as we are adults. If the loos are locked for long periods children are going to be holding it in longer than they need to. There are going to be continence issues as a result. My nephew is NT and holds in pee. GP has told us that if it continues it will result in some level of bladder incontinence. I would have thought that school would be aware of these issues.

Doesn’t surprise me

i would question the legality of it though….

my daughter has kidney issues and at aged 5 was told she could t use the toilet. I kept speaking to them about it.

As a teacher, I often have to hold for hours

But you can quit and get a different job.

Kids have to be there under threat of parents being fined and jailed.

Try to say he has a medical issue. Gets a toilet pass. I sent an email in saying my daughter had special medication and that meant she needed to go to toilet. Many toilets are locked to stop smoking vaping and mobile phone use and pictures. Also toilets get vandalised.

I actually had a work place tell me that I wasn’t allowed to use the toilet during me 6 hour workday. I was also a cashier job where I was locked into a small space (because of it being open to the public and large amounts of money)

I rang a solicitor who said you’d think it was highly illegal but it’s actually more of a grey area…..

I left that job not long after. I even had a dr write me a note to say ‘please allow cereal killer use of the toilets during their shift’

shocking

When I was I doctor, I often had to hold it for hours too - but it doesn't make it right or healthy. It's so easy to fall into the mindset of 'well if I had to/have to put up with it then everyone else can too'.

I imagine the ratio of teachers to staff toilets is also much better, so when you are able to go, you can at least get to the toilet?

Plus you are actually an adult, so can make a judgement call as to when your need for the loo outweighs other priorities (i.e. you don't need to go and ask the Head before you can use the loo) and whether to continue in a job where you don't manage to pee for hours on end.

The children don't have a choice and that is I imagine both physically and potentially psychologically damaging to them. I mean, the OPs child hasn't just not been allowed to go to the toilet, he has actually been punished for asking!!!

My school had issues with smoking and truanting in the toilets . The headteacher took a pragmatic approach and installed shelters which were conveniently out of sight of the main buildings. Kids could smoke and bunk off in there and the toilets remained clean and pleasant. Most kids completed the rebellious phase and knuckled down in time to get decent grades. The authoritarian approach can do more harm than good I think.

So ‘girls on their period’ would have to….. forgot about inclusion and privacy and have to tell someone they had their period? 🤔. Do you really not see how this would single students out and cause high anxiety for many girls?

Love it! This is the kind of thing that can actually work.

These points are really important.

When I was called for jury service about 10 years ago, I rang them explaining that due to my very heavy periods, I couldn’t guarantee not having to get up and leave midway through the session. She said well you’re not allowed to just do that and during the break, there is a single toilet right next to the jury seats.
I said well, if I can’t just get up and leave to go to a proper bathroom away from the courtroom, I would potentially be flooding in the chair.

She agreed there wasn’t a good solution and excused me from jury service.
Knowing how hard it is to be excused from jury service, it was actually easier to do that than for a kid at secondary to use the loo the loo in their lunch break!!

What year was that?

I agree!! I was just thinking that if my school prevented me from going to the toilet and punished me for asking to go to the toilet, then it wouldn't engender an attitude of respect in me, so I can see this very much being a vicious circle. In our school, smokers (pupils and teachers), smoked behind the portacabins. I think smoking or vaping in loos likely to set the fire alarm and sprinklers off, have schools now got rid of these too? Yes, there was an element of bullying etc in loos, but also any hidden corner. But the toilet areas had no door (the cubicles had doors) and were off a busy corridor, so shenigans would be heard. Prefects patrolled too and we took our jobs relatively seriously. Mine was a good rural comprehensive, so I appreciate that this might be harder in some schools.

@Maireas 1990s.
place was pure anarchy and had terrible attendance rates. New headteacher was determined to fix the culture and did so by meeting the kids in the middle on a lot of stuff he was unusual in his approach. I remember a handful of us got pissed on the school charity walk and him handing us all cans of coke and bags of crisps in his office ‘it’s the last day of term and I really cannot be arsed with the paperwork and the phone calls. Sober up and fuck off home please. Don’t do this again.’ I liked him.

Imagnu1234 · Today 17:19

I imagine the ratio of teachers to staff toilets is also much better, so when you are able to go, you can at least get to the toilet?

You would be surprised as it depends very much on the school.

What are other parents of the school also saying about the situation?

I thought it must have been some time ago.

My daughter is a teacher, has been for fifteen years, Im aware of the pressures. . If you choose not to visit the loo at breaktime or lunchtime thats your own choice, if the kids toilets are locked they arent having that choice. Why stop kids using a toilet? If you tried doing that in a workplace you would have a strike on your hands.

Yes - and the particular location in the school. I used to work in a block alongside four other female teachers, with no toilet facilities at all. It was a trek across the playground and along a longish corridor to get to the loo, which always had queues at lunch and break.
A breaktime duty plus lunchtime detentions to supervise on a day with no PPA time would make one think twice before drinking a cup of tea. Very difficult if subject to period flooding (which I was).

I have no idea how pupil toilet provision can be solved.

This is a secondary school. They can have the oldest children monitoring the toilets at break. Dont schools still have prefects?

@Maireas thanks. I feel old now 🤣