To expect my 11 year old to be able to use the toilet during the school day?

[bendy75]

Is this the norm? My 11 year old started in at secondary school last month and has had two warnings (or stage 2 - Low level disruptions) for asking to use the toilet.

I told him to try and go at break times but he tells me they are locked, confirmed today by staff when I asked, children who have a medical need can apply for a toilet pass but he does not, so has to try and go from 8.00 am until returning home around 3.00pm without using the toilet.

AIBU to be shocked by this?

Yes I guess you’re right. Definitely cannot be bullied you’re right.

Same for me in the 70s/early 80s. We had daily assemblies and they regularly consisted of the deputy head roaring at the whole school over some toilet issue. They never got locked though.

Given many schools (I believe) use swipe cards for paying for dinner etc, couldn't they/something similar be used to gain every to the toilets?

Or in the entrance/sinks area (pointed away from cubicles in case some don't shut the door), use CCTV. Its only checked if there are complaints of bullying or vandalism, and not stored for long. As grim as that sounds, is no worse than having a teacher standing in there and gets around the 'no available staff' issue. Given it would only be checked if needed, it would result in more rather than less privacy. I hate the idea of this btw, and it feels wrong, but better than kids making themselves ill etc.

Ex SW annd in my experience it was sexual assaults, drugs, physical assaults and drinking to name the worse ones.

The ‘lesser’ offences being vaping, truancy, smoking etc.

In our county it is because all the alternative provision places (PRUs) are full and there is no funding for more places. So there is nowhere for permanently excluded students to go, so no exclusions. It is unlawful for schools to permanently exclude a student when no alternative provision is in place, so it simply doesn't happen.

Our toilets are open to the corridor, CCTV pointed at them and they still have to be supervised at breaktime because CCTV isn’t manned, only checked if there’s an incident. It won’t pick up on kids not being able to go to the toilet because the cubicles are full of kids sat in there 5 to a cubicle chatting and eating snacks. A teacher would clock that though, and stop kids hanging around so that everyone can get to the loos.

Not wanting to minimise those things, but I think children being unable to use the toilet is worse than all of that except arguably assaults. And closing the toilets won't stop children from assaulting other children, they'll just find somewhere else to do it.

Yes, I would agree that the solution is more toilets. As I said before they don't lock them at my school and I tend to be good about letting kids out to go during lessons because of the lack of adequate toilets for the number of students. They are however cleaned throughout the day. More toilets cost money that many schools don't have (they're too busy syphoning it off for the CEO and the MAT people but that's another thread).

You're right about times. Break and lunchtimes have got shorter and shorter. It was close to an hour when I started teaching 20 years ago and it's now more like 40 minutes; 30 in some schools.

Would be interesting to hear the outcome of the school conversation this morning

The OP updated at 09.50

Similar to a lot of pp, DD's school had locked toilets during lessons which would theoretically be opened for break and lunch. Usually only one would actually be opened because presumably a staff issue (?) so DD said you could spend your whole break looking for the one open toilet. Her school got good exam results but my god she couldn't wait to escape to 6th form college to leave the petty rules and arsehole kids behind.

30 minutes doesn't seem like enough time for toilets and lunch if there are huge queues for both

My kids secondary school the toilets are locked during lessons bar one that is supervised by the reception staff. They are all open at break times but 500 kids trying to use them at once means that sometimes they run out of time before getting to go! This is a massive issue for girls especially! They are currently building more do hopefully next term it won't be so difficult

I never let my primary class go to the toilet in lesson time

Well done you!

If this was my child, I would be writing a letter stating that my child would be remaining in the queue until she’s able to go - and if that means she’s late to lesson, maybe they’ll do something about it.

Thank the lord my two are not at school now!

Yes. About which I posted from my own experience. The toilets may as well have been locked as they were completely no-go areas for most pupils.

I'm a teacher. Because of the split breaks and lunches there are times when I have the first break and the second lunch meaning I have to teach 3 hours without the opportunity to go for a wee. I physically cannot do that and so I have to ask colleagues to watch my class. And I agree that it's also unfair on the children.

It happens in many other jobs I'm sure. Midwife is one that springs to mind. I'm not saying it's ok, far from it. Just that it isn't rare. We should all be able to use the loo as and when we need to.

Yes it's a huge feminist issue.

All those girls, just starting their periods, already needing, but not having, more toilet provision than the boys. And then you exacerbate that problem by not letting them use the toilet during lessons and forcing them to use that inadequate toilet provision in pre-determined, short windows of time.

Why are parents not protesting against this en masse?

There are girls that start their periods in primary. And children who struggle to hold it at the other end of the age range.

You're fine with them feeling upset, anxious and humiliated?

Not disputing they should be allowed at breaks though

The difference is that you choose to be in a job where there are limited opportunities to use the toilet. So did I (often from 9-4 without time for the loo). So would midwives, and surgeons etc.

An adult can choose not to have a job without ready toilet access. A child cannot choose to opt out of school.

Which year do you teach? Do you have loads of accidents? Surprising if you don’t!

In ks2 so most can hold it for an hour or two, obviously girls on their period would be an exception.

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