Page 16 | To expect my 11 year old to be able to use the toilet during the school day?

bendy75 · 2023-10-10T14:15:47+00:00

Is this the norm? My 11 year old started in at secondary school last month and has had two warnings (or stage 2 - Low level disruptions) for asking to use the toilet. I told him to try and go at break times but he tells me they are locked, confirmed today by staff when I asked, children who have a medical need can apply for a toilet pass but he does not, so has to try and go from 8.00 am until returning home around 3.00pm without using the toilet. AIBU to be shocked by this?

cyclamenqueen · 11/10/2023 14:18

SammyScrounge · 11/10/2023 14:03

Toilets will be locked during class time but available at break times.

Multiple teachers have come on here to confirm that they are locked all the time at their schools. It’s clearly a growing issue

KingsleyBorder · 11/10/2023 14:21

MargotBamborough · 11/10/2023 14:05

Am I missing something here?

Why do toilets need to be manned?

When I was at school the toilets were open at all times and they were never manned by a member of staff.

What on earth is happening in toilets that means children can't have unsupervised access to them?

Show quote history

Vandalism, smoking, vaping, bullying, assault.

EarthlyNightshade · 11/10/2023 14:21

MargotBamborough · 11/10/2023 14:05

Am I missing something here?

Why do toilets need to be manned?

When I was at school the toilets were open at all times and they were never manned by a member of staff.

What on earth is happening in toilets that means children can't have unsupervised access to them?

Show quote history

There's a few reasons why they need to be manned given upthread.

Shufflebumnessie · 11/10/2023 14:21

DS recently started secondary school and is facing similar issues. All toilets are locked during class time, apart from one set located near the main entertainment. Each year group has their own toilets which are unlocked at break and lunch. Unfortunately, it seems that the teachers regularly forget to unlock the toilets when they're supposed to. They are then holding it until lunch when there are huge queues as everyone is desperate by then.
If you ask to use the toilets during lessons you're expected to explain why in front of the class.
I know there are lots of very unhappy students and parents.

theprincessthepea · 11/10/2023 14:23

YANBU but I have always thought that the secondary school toilet policy was ridiculous. When I was in school (2 decades ago) they would lock the toilet and I thought that was ridiculous.

What if you start your period during lesson? Or have a UTI or like you said are waiting for this medical pass.

What is so annoying is that it takes so long to get the toilets unlocked by a janitor - even for children that have passes.

I’m with you on this one OP

shockeditellyou · 11/10/2023 14:24

GymWanker · 11/10/2023 13:45

@Alwaysgiraffe why aren't you allowed to expel pupils?

not goading - general question. I was a chair of governors and a MAT for many years and sat on many exclusion panels, although mainly for primary schools. So I’m interested (and worried)

As a Chair of Governors, I supported our HT through permanent exclusion of a Y1 child who had, amongst other things, snapped a handbasin off the wall after shitting in it, called a TA a "fat cunt and it's a shame that your cancer didn't kill you"

It went to an independent review, which could find no fault with the process followed by the school and where the SEND representative said that the school's measure were reasonable adjustments. The IRB demanded the school reconsider the exclusion - the Governors refused to readmit the pupil. The LA then bullied the HT out of his job, and ultimately cost him his career.

This is not unusual in our LA.

CitizenofMoronia · 11/10/2023 14:24

Reply to the email asking for the contact details of the chair of governors as this is it is totally unacceptable even with staffing issues to expect a whole school to use the toilet in a 30 period in the middle of the day.

shockeditellyou · 11/10/2023 14:25

Sorry - posted too soon. The LA wants to do as little as possible for bad behaviour (whatever the reason) and leans on schools to cope and not make the LA look bad. The LA suggested many illegal exclusion techniques, that our head was not prepared to engage with.

You only need to look at the number of parents on here suggesting their little darling urinates on the floor if they aren't allowed to go to the toilet to see where they get it from.

MargotBamborough · 11/10/2023 14:26

KingsleyBorder · 11/10/2023 14:21

Vandalism, smoking, vaping, bullying, assault.

Show quote history

So the same kind of things that were happening in school toilets in the 1990s then.

MargotBamborough · 11/10/2023 14:26

EarthlyNightshade · 11/10/2023 14:21

There's a few reasons why they need to be manned given upthread.

Show quote history

Bad behaviour in toilets was a big problem when I was at school too but they didn't bloody lock them and stop kids from going to the toilet!

MargotBamborough · 11/10/2023 14:27

shockeditellyou · 11/10/2023 14:25

Sorry - posted too soon. The LA wants to do as little as possible for bad behaviour (whatever the reason) and leans on schools to cope and not make the LA look bad. The LA suggested many illegal exclusion techniques, that our head was not prepared to engage with.

You only need to look at the number of parents on here suggesting their little darling urinates on the floor if they aren't allowed to go to the toilet to see where they get it from.

Where do you suggest children urinate if they can't access toilets during the school day then?

Topsyturvy78 · 11/10/2023 14:28

Most of us used to behave. Though there was the odd few that messed about. Throwing wet toilet roll blocking toilets up and messing about with the hand wash soap. As well as bullies using it as as opportunity to bully other pupils.whie out of site.

I hated using the toilet in first year juniors. We had to share our toilets with the fourth year at first . Because it was a newly built school our toilets hadn't been put in yet. But the old school building was falling down so we couldn't stay there. This one girl used to lean over and throw wet toilet roll at me when I was on the toilet. As she was tall and the toilet cubicles were only just about 5 foot high she could easily stand on the toilet next door and lean over. One day I got so pissed off I retaliated and scratched her face. She never did it again though and I was friend's with her sister in my year. Even went to the same guide's as her and she never bullied me.

flufferknutter · 11/10/2023 14:30

I suppose they'd be stabbing each other if they weren't supervised. When I was in secondary during the 80s, you couldn't use the toilets due to bullying. I used to be so desperate that I'd have to go home during lunch then felt too miserable and demoralised (due to being bullied) that I just didn't return for the afternoon.

Secondary school has always been hell. Every generation is forced to endure the same miseries.

sprigatito · 11/10/2023 14:30

shockeditellyou · 11/10/2023 14:25

Sorry - posted too soon. The LA wants to do as little as possible for bad behaviour (whatever the reason) and leans on schools to cope and not make the LA look bad. The LA suggested many illegal exclusion techniques, that our head was not prepared to engage with.

You only need to look at the number of parents on here suggesting their little darling urinates on the floor if they aren't allowed to go to the toilet to see where they get it from.

It does happen, whether you believe it or not. I know of an autistic teenager it happened to. The School Policy said he couldn't go to the toilet during an exam. Can you imagine the level of humiliation and misery that caused? Nobody should be denied access to a toilet when they need one.

Verbena17 · 11/10/2023 14:31

Alwaysgiraffe · 11/10/2023 13:40

Here is the problem. My school have had to fix the main toilets at least twice a year (major vandalism) and they get blocked/graffiti/flooded several times a month. That’s before we even talk about the vaping in there. We thought we’d try something different, spent a lot of money making them properly nice. Hoping pupils would respect them more.
It lasted a week. Sink pulled off the wall. Mirrors broken. Toilets blocked and flooded.
We are not allowed to exclude pupils. We can (and did) bill the parents but most refused to pay. The school has little authority to force them. They are now locked at break and lunch. The individual cubical toilets in other areas are available but the pupil has to sign for the key from either SLT or HoD.

What would your solution be?

(secondary school)

There’s surely not much point making the kids sign for the key if a person isn’t going to then check the loo after every single use.

MagpiePi · 11/10/2023 14:32

MargotBamborough · 11/10/2023 14:26

Bad behaviour in toilets was a big problem when I was at school too but they didn't bloody lock them and stop kids from going to the toilet!

Show quote history

Back in the 80s they didn't lock the toilets but you didn't go in unless you wanted to be subjected to bullying, apart from the fact that they were dirty, vandalised and with no toilet paper.

At least it was only girls in the girl's toilets in those days.

beachcitygirl · 11/10/2023 14:36

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

beachcitygirl · 11/10/2023 14:36

Sorry wrong thread - have reported my own post
Many apologies everyone

Canisaysomething · 11/10/2023 14:43

This thread is absolutely shocking on so many levels.

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 11/10/2023 14:44

This is completely out of order. Access to. Toilet is a necessity

Totalblindnessofthesoul · 11/10/2023 14:44

They were locked apart from lunch when I was at school 25 years ago. The queues were so long that you had to choose between going to the toilet and lunch. The teacher would stand at the entrance, and the horrendous bullying inside would continue.

Thankfully that was eventually abandoned. I would go during lessons when I could - yes it's not ideal to miss 5 minutes of class, but it's better than being beaten up. Going in class time is often the safest way for a lot of bullied kids to access the toilets (teachers were more reluctant to let the troublemakers out during the lessons).

I developed a bladder of steel at school, but it's led to a lifetime of waiting and a lifetime of recurrent UTIs.

I'd hoped things had got better. 😢

Alwaysgiraffe · 11/10/2023 14:46

@Verbena17 signing for the key means a) an exact record of who was in there and when and b) only one kid at a time
They are checked several times a day.

Many of our kids prefer it. Yes it’s a pain to go get the key but there will not be 6 kids vaping, trying to take photos over the doors and stuffing toilet roll in the sinks to block them.

They get some privacy, no bullying and a relatively clean toilet.

Alwaysgiraffe · 11/10/2023 14:47

It’s also greatly reduced the number of kids who skive classes and hide in the toilets.

Verbena17 · 11/10/2023 14:49

shockeditellyou · 11/10/2023 14:25

Sorry - posted too soon. The LA wants to do as little as possible for bad behaviour (whatever the reason) and leans on schools to cope and not make the LA look bad. The LA suggested many illegal exclusion techniques, that our head was not prepared to engage with.

You only need to look at the number of parents on here suggesting their little darling urinates on the floor if they aren't allowed to go to the toilet to see where they get it from.

I posted up thread about how I told my child’s yr 1 teacher if she didn’t let him to to the loo in class, I had told him to wee on her floor. She very quickly put in place that he would be able to go to the loo during class time.

I’ve never wee’d on the floor in my life and come from a very well behaved and polite family, but I wasn’t going to bullied by some teacher/ridiculous school policy saying my child would have to sit and wet himself in his chair just because she was following orders!

So no, it’s not ‘you can see where they get it from’ at all….it’s just a caring mum just trying to get basic toileting rights for my 6yr old child!

lettingtheforumdown · 11/10/2023 14:50

crumblingschools · 11/10/2023 08:40

@lettingtheforumdown it is pretty difficult to permanently exclude a pupil, and where do you think they go if they have been permanently excluded from one school? Schools are also judged by how many exclusions they have had

God knows. But I feel very sorry for the pupils who are nice and pleasant and just want to get on with their work and do well if they've got this kind of stuff going on in the background. I also feel sorry for the teachers who have to deal with it.

I was at school in the 70s and 80s and the loos were not an issue (unless you count Izal loo paper - I suppose it did mean that we couldn't fool around with it).