To expect my 11 year old to be able to use the toilet during the school day?

[bendy75]

Is this the norm? My 11 year old started in at secondary school last month and has had two warnings (or stage 2 - Low level disruptions) for asking to use the toilet.

I told him to try and go at break times but he tells me they are locked, confirmed today by staff when I asked, children who have a medical need can apply for a toilet pass but he does not, so has to try and go from 8.00 am until returning home around 3.00pm without using the toilet.

AIBU to be shocked by this?

100% this. Why is the bar so low, behaviour like this should not be tolerated, surely teachers can instil enough discipline, are children really that feral now ?
If they are then they need to be placed in a suitable special school away from the vast majority of normal kids who just want to learn in peace. Parents, you need to be raising this as unacceptable for your own children to have to live with. Parents of feral kids, sort yourselves and your bloody kids out or stay away from the rest of us.

The toilets are kept locked at my teens high school and they have to ask for a key or pass.

There have been many safeguarding incidents at high schools (in general) and so this is the reason why in many cases.

I don’t understand why so my people are saying this isn’t true. There’s loads of secondary schools where the toilets are permanently locked. My pre-teen attends one.

They have to get a pass if it’s in the lesson, or a key if it’s at break.

Yes it’s utterly ridiculous (he tells me majority of the boys are on the fields) god knows what the girls do. But it is 100% true.

Yes they do! Better everything by the looks of it!

I'm fairly certain if you ran this past any medical professional they'd confirm how bad it is for someone's health to hold it when you really need to loo

im very sure medics would also agree that having to keep empty your bladder when you dont feel the need to to suit the schools timetable as a teacher upthread suggested will cause an overactive bladder.

*I don't understand what's happened in secondary since I was a student.

Has it really changed that much in a 20-odd years?*

People aren't bringing their children up. Families aren't sitting down and talking to each other at dinner. Teenagers are spending all their free time alone in their bedrooms. They aren't out with their friends like we were.

Parents are working longer hours. My dad had a professional job, he was home at six. My dh isn't home till eight.

Social media has changed everything too. There is no respite. Everyone is accessible all day long.

I've stopped teaching now. Mostly because of the pressure. Parents are an absolute nightmare.

I think if this was happening to any child of mine I'd be going straight to ofstead..its a basic violation of human rights to deny anyone the use of a toilet..can you imagine if this happened in a workplace...really not ok

There is a fun show on tiktok. Is it a UK University dorm or Swedish prison?

@Allyliz trust me, Ofsted won't care. In fact they would probably say it was good behaviour management!

@Livinginanotherworld Its hilarious you think there's special school places for SEMH kids. In my experience the 'feral' kids parents are often at their wits end, or they don't care. There's little you can do though and it is only getting worse.

Perhaps secondary schools should copy primary schools that often have toilets adjacent to each classroom. This would make supervision easier.

If this is true I would write to the head and the board and the local paper, because having loos open for 30 mins a day, unless you have time to get a pass, is clearly insane.

But I really would verify it with the head of year first

Imagine being so far gone, that you actually argue that denying children, or indeed anybody, access to toilet is acceptable.

I'm sorry for whatever made them that way.

Absolutely agree! There might be issues to tackle, but the solution shouldn't just be restricting access because that's easiest/cheapest.

Here is the problem. My school have had to fix the main toilets at least twice a year (major vandalism) and they get blocked/graffiti/flooded several times a month. That’s before we even talk about the vaping in there. We thought we’d try something different, spent a lot of money making them properly nice. Hoping pupils would respect them more.
It lasted a week. Sink pulled off the wall. Mirrors broken. Toilets blocked and flooded.
We are not allowed to exclude pupils. We can (and did) bill the parents but most refused to pay. The school has little authority to force them. They are now locked at break and lunch. The individual cubical toilets in other areas are available but the pupil has to sign for the key from either SLT or HoD.

What would your solution be?

(secondary school)

It's not suprising really. Look at posts on here- the instant resort is to vile abuse. He's a cunt, wanker, arsehole and the one I was just gobsmacked to read - wankstain. This is in response to relatively non- issues. my husband didn't put out the trash or my neighbour's cat pood on my gravel.
There was a whole thread about a 6 year old using a bad word and OP was worried about it. Cue the pile on about oh it's not offensive, it's just slang, it's acceptable.

If parents are freely using such level of depraved insults so freely, I just shudder to think what their children are privy to.

Toilets shouldn’t be locked at all.

@Alwaysgiraffe why aren't you allowed to expel pupils?

not goading - general question. I was a chair of governors and a MAT for many years and sat on many exclusion panels, although mainly for primary schools. So I’m interested (and worried)

I’m in Scotland and it’s part of the ‘inclusion policy’. The most serious sanction we can issue is a half day out of class in the ‘nurture’ room and a meeting with parents.

Some areas in England are also mandating a No Exclusions policy. It’s batshit.

@Alwaysgiraffe how do they enforce fines if a child is absent without permission? Could damage be fined in the same way? And could the lunch fingerprint system be used for the toilet? Not to pay to use but to monitor if they are missing too much of their lessons and know who's in there if damage is done (with regular checks). Would that be a way forward? It sounds like big changes need to be made...kids can't be expected to hold it in all day!

This isn't Denton community college in greater Manchester by any chance is it?

Toilets will be locked during class time but available at break times.

Am I missing something here?

Why do toilets need to be manned?

When I was at school the toilets were open at all times and they were never manned by a member of staff.

What on earth is happening in toilets that means children can't have unsupervised access to them?

30 minuites a day is no where near long enough to allow 1000 students to go to the toilet. That's rediculous I'm an introvert like your son. I went nearly every every break. I just hated the thought of having to go to the front of the class to ask to use the toilet. And I never did have to ask. But could you imagine the uproar if staff were told they could only go to the toilet during 30 minuites of the dinner break?

My DC both have special needs. They went to a special needs school. Part of their education was communication. So it was important they were listened to if they said they needed to go they could. School were just happy they had the confidence to express their needs. Verbal or not some would just run out the classroom and go. No lock's on toilets as all children were escorted. The younger children's classrooms had their own toilets.