To expect my 11 year old to be able to use the toilet during the school day?

[bendy75]

Is this the norm? My 11 year old started in at secondary school last month and has had two warnings (or stage 2 - Low level disruptions) for asking to use the toilet.

I told him to try and go at break times but he tells me they are locked, confirmed today by staff when I asked, children who have a medical need can apply for a toilet pass but he does not, so has to try and go from 8.00 am until returning home around 3.00pm without using the toilet.

AIBU to be shocked by this?

People were bullied in toilets when I was at school as well.

Absolutely this! I went to a really good school, but there were still issues in the toilets occasionally. Someone in my year was caught smoking in the toilets. NOBODY blamed the school or teachers. Nobody said it was the school's responsibility to prevent. It was 100% on the child and her parents.

IMO, what has changed over time is that we are (rightly) less tolerant of children harming themselves and others, and that we hold schools / teachers more accountable for the behaviour of their students than we used to.

My son went to an all boys school and went all day in secondary without using the toilets because there was a lot of rowdy and frightening behaviour going in in the toilets at breaktimes.
It got better as he got older but certainly in the first year or two he NEVER went into the toilets.

That's the usual reason a kid doesn't want to go into the toilets at break time.
It's just too overwhelming.

What difference does that make?

I'm not saying we should encourage kids to vape, smoking wasn't allowed either.
The only difference I can really see from the schools point is when they smoke and put a fag end down the loo it doesn't block the loo. Putting vapes down the loo blocks it.

Putting it down the loo is a way of hiding the evidence that they have been smoking or vaping.

Get them to hide the evidence by using a bin!

Many of these schools were built in the seventies when there were twice the number of present pupils. In those days, as l remember well, 35 was considered a small class. Many were nearer 40. My exam maths class had 38 pupils in it. There was no problem with toilets being locked or with time to visit them at break and lunchtimes. This is not an excuse or the answer.
OP, l would imagine the school is actually breaking the law as it is a basic human right to be able to visit a toilet when needed.

I went to a very mixed comprehensive in the 1980s in a small town in Scotland. Toilets were open at break and lunch time but it was terrifying to go into them as they were the territory of really scary bullies- the kind who would burn you with cigarette ends. I suppose must have just held it in. In those days we didn’t drink water during the day, no bottles allowed and no drinking fountains. I did go home for lunch though, no idea how those who had school dinners managed.

It’s horrendous, sad to hear things haven’t changed. I can’t imagine holding it in like that now.

I’d be interested to hear on this thread from anyone with kids in independent schools as one reason for going private is often better behaviour and facilities, right? DS is only 7 and primary OK so far.

It’s not healthy to wait that long. They could be causing students issues in the long term.

I would be raising this and demanding the de merits be removed and access to the toilets reinstated.

Exactly. I wasn't diagnosed til I was almost 30 and IBS is not all that uncommon, there will be plenty of kids out there suffering like we did. Some posters on this thread saying children should "learn control" have clearly never had an issue like this.

And you are right that the medical passes can also cause embarrassment. I just think if some schools can make it work then the vast majority should be able to

@KingsleyBorder I've already commented as behaviour is one of the reasons we chose private education for secondary school. Zero instances of vaping etc in toilets at her school and no need to keep them locked either.

I went to a rough east London high school and we had toilets! Open all break and lunch and a reasonably accessible way of getting the key during lessons. The school was in special measures and had issues, but they didn’t deny us a wee or water.
I can’t believe children have changed so much it’s no longer possible to allow toileting at school. It’s pretty horrendous when you step back and think

And you are right that the medical passes can also cause embarrassment. I just think if some schools can make it work then the vast majority should be able to

But different schools have wildly different intakes. Suggesting that because, I dunno, the leafy comp lets the kids go to the toilet during lessons that the far less leafy comp should be able to just 'make it work' like the other school does isn't really fair.

So they want 2000 (?) kids to access the toilets within 30 mins? That's 67 kids per minute.

This is very condescending to poorer communities to assume they don’t have the agency to use the toilet when and how they want, absolutely bonkers.

It’s disgusting. At DD’s school they’re open during break times but she said the queues are often so long there isn’t enough time to go.

This is obviously a huge problem in lots of schools. I think parents need to raise they're children properly, with respect for people and property but I don't know if the kind of family that raises a child who smears poo on walls and smashes pipes in is capable of that? I don't think it's the schools job to teach people how to be a decent human being...although they do try. Reading these posts I can totally understand why unsupervised toilets would be locked, why kids can't leave during lessons (although in an ideal world they would be able to whenever they need to) and why it's hard to have staff to supervise...but the fact is that humans need to use the toilet, and a child desperate for the loo can't just be left to be uncomfortable or even in pain and certainly can't concentrate on their work. I feel like this will be the next thing after food poverty linked to lack of focus...another basic human need that needs addressing before you can do anything else like learn or participate in activities.
Instead of moaning about it we all need to put our heads together to find a way for children to be able to safely go to the toilet with minimal disruption and guarding against damage to property. This is such a big problem and until this morning I didn't know it existed!

It wouldn't surprise me OP. One of our local secondary schools have removed the doors from the toilets to prevent the build up of vape fumes setting off the fire alarms. Same school, a wedge of cannabis was found under a ceiling tile in one of the toilets. Toilets are now open to allow teachers to monitor what goes on inside or 'privacy' toilets are locked and a key requested.

It one of many issues that made me feel like I've failed my DC sending them to the state secondary we did - and really wish we'd managed the better catchment area somehow - but then DN went to a good school in leafy area and had many of the same problems - lack of teachers break down in pupil discipline increasingly restricted access to toilets.

FE college had proven a breath of fresh air for DN and DS and they are much happier as a result - we've just got to get DD2 though next 2 years of state secondary.

I have dc at independent schools. Behaviour (general, across while school) was one reason why I wanted to send my children to private schools. I grew up on a rough council estate - I am well aware of what went on in schools 30 years ago, and I have little reason to think it will have changed for the better.

at dd’s school there is an issue with vaping. The school are trying to sort it out, and do have some measures in place, but dd says it’s not working (she is not a vaper, and generally is not using the toilets concerned now, as she is in 6th form)

ds has only just started secondary, and has not reported any major toileting issues. his main gripe is that messaging has been disabled on some of his class Teams (due to silly messaging, eg poo emojis) so he can’t always easily ping a message about his music lesson - a far cry from even the mildest behaviours described by teachers on this thread.

both schools were chosen for the fact that they are small, friendly, and happy to find ways to ensure everyone is treated with respect and solutions found, rather than blanket bans.

@debthemum if the demographic of the school results in poorer behaviour (for a variety of reasons, partly because parents who can will vote with their feet) then that means there may have to be rules put in place for when toilets can be open

I mean 20 actual toilets. There are 3 sets of toilets in the building each with 5 for boys and 5 for girls but they only open 2 of them during breaks and lunches to keep students to one part of the building. We have split breaks and lunches so the other one is 2 year groups or 600 kids
It's crazy when you actually attempt the maths.

I resent this insinuation I think it’s horrendous to use physical discomfort as a punishment

@Sugarfree23 for every 2 pupils that smoke and hide in the toilets you may have 6 or 8 who vape, so more disruptive behaviour in the toilets. And if they are happy to break the rules to vape can't see them being responsible to put the vapes in the bin, they will still try and stuff them down the toilet or litter them

Soubriquet · Yesterday 15:35
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I wouldn’t stand for this. It’s barbaric. You don’t expect adults to hold it in for hours, why are children treated differently?
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I must say, I would be going to the school and kicking up a fuss”

This. Do the teachers have access to loos?

@debthemum if there is poor behaviour in the toilets children won't use them, doesn't matter if they are open during lesson time. It is an horrendous situation, that cannot be solved by schools alone.

You may not like the fact that schools in certain areas will have poorer behaviour than in other areas, but it happens. Mainly because other services are no longer available for families who need help, and schools have to pick up the pieces with no funding

@MrsSkylerWhite teachers have to learn immense bladder control!

Our local secondary has the majority of the toilets locked too. It's a thing now because of the behaviour of students.
Parents are up in arms as the kids are refusing to drink so as not to use the ones that are unlocked. In our school it's a couple of cubicles available for the whole school. Disgusting and certainly is true.