To expect my 11 year old to be able to use the toilet during the school day?

[bendy75]

Is this the norm? My 11 year old started in at secondary school last month and has had two warnings (or stage 2 - Low level disruptions) for asking to use the toilet.

I told him to try and go at break times but he tells me they are locked, confirmed today by staff when I asked, children who have a medical need can apply for a toilet pass but he does not, so has to try and go from 8.00 am until returning home around 3.00pm without using the toilet.

AIBU to be shocked by this?

A few days ago a kid asked to go to the toilet in the middle of my lesson. Be quick, I said.

Within the next 5 minutes, eight more children had asked to go.

How would the 'children need to be allowed to go to the toilet whenever they ask' crowd deal with that? Have 9 kids out of lesson wandering the corridors? Implement a one-in one-out system and spent the next half hour having the lesson disrupted with a series of comings and goings?

I'm pretty sure only the most gullible would believe that all eight of them actually really needed the toilet at the exact point where they realised that a toilet request could get them out of the lesson.

As it was I said that the situation was ridiculous, and that I wasn't going to try to decide who got to go. None of them asked again, and all of them made it to the end of the lesson without the slightest sign of actually needing the toilet.

Would the 'kids need to be allowed to go when asked' crowd really have expected me to allow all of them out? If the answer is no, then clearly 'kids need to be allowed to the toilet when they ask' is a shit policy.

I think this is shocking, and what will happen is kids will stop drinking so that they don’t need the toilet throughout the day which is terrible for their health!

Do you mean 10 toilets as in 10 bathrooms with multiple toilet cubicles in each. Or 20 actual toilets for 900 kids?

Would you rather risk your child being filmed/attacked in the toilets than have an adult keeping an eye on things?
The teacher does not go into the cubicle with the children.

@BlueMongoose I sometimes had to be on toilet duty when I was a parent volunteer at Primary school and on school trips. You don't go into the toilet with them and you will have a DBS done. You just had to lurk in the vicinity of the toilet block. With the Primary children at school it was more to try and get them to stop faffing and actually wash their hands rather than to prevent serious anti social behaviour.

But vaping is very much a thing in Primary schools now

When people hark bad to the good old days and that smoking etc happened in school toilets then, vaping is a much bigger problem nowadays than smoking and targeting many more children that would have used cigarettes, and of course there is the scourge of mobile phones and social media

Is peeing not a human right? What are they meant to do not have any fluids until they get back home and then be dehydrated hence get ill so school can complain about low attendance rates? This is definitely not OK

I fully support teachers using their discretion, I'm sure most teachers can tell when kids are just taking the mick. I'm not in agreement with a blanket ban.

I absolutely would not tolerate a staff member "supervising" my child while they go to the loo.

Then you are fortunate that your child goes to a school where their peers don't smoke, take drugs, have sex, video others using the loo, beat up other students in the toilets. If your child was at risk of any of that then I sincerely hope you'd think having an adult in the corridor / standing by the toilet doors supervising would be preferable!

My personal preference would be to exclude any and all pupils engaging in these behaviours. But schools can't do that as easily as they should be able to.

@Catza do you honestly think schools just bring in the policy of locking toilets and do nothing else about behaviour.

And by the way it won't be teachers who bring in this policy, they just have to enforce it

I’m one of the few that truly believe even if they’re open break and lunch it’s absolutely ridiculous that kids aren’t allowed to go any other time. What about if they have a drink and use the toilet at lunch, then they need the toilet again at 2-2:30. Absolutely not out the ordinary for most of us and schools are not meant to be prisons where basic human needs are withheld. If a child is continuously needing to leave lesson to go to the toilet then that can be broached with said child/parent but on a whole this new rule of when they are/are not allowed to use the loo is downright disgusting and one I personally do not think is a teachers/schools right to judge.

A solution might be for schools experiencing these behaviour/vandalism issues, to invite members of the military into schools - for the government to set up an actual program whereby cool men and women serving/ex serving go into schools and do loads of work on self esteem, behaviour, morality etc.
Maybe as part of the PHSE curriculum or whatever. So kids are actually inspired to reach for personal goals and achievements alongside helping and supporting each other.

Also, maybe instead of schools focussing so much on traditional PE lessons, they could ramp it up a bit and have lots more team building stuff - making kids feel good about themselves and feel good when they help others too.

Secondary school kids could go into primary schools of an afternoon to listen to children read or help them with maths etc. Private schools do this in local communities on a weekly basis - there’s no reason why state schools couldn’t try this much more holistic and positive approach to learning.

there’s no reason why state schools couldn’t try this much more holistic and positive approach to learning.

There are many reasons why state schools can't spend afternoons sending their kids to primary schools.

This thread shows that teachers (like prison guards) have lost empathy.

I agree funding is at an all time low, staffing levels atrocious & pay for the job a joke.

That said SEVERAL of the posters on this thread have confirmed they vote conservative on other parts of the boards. So ya know....

It also shows that teachers are doing a really crap job. Using collective punishment because some kids are little shits.

So in summary.
Turkeys voting for xmas
Schools getting worse despite rules being more draconian.

Time for a rethink.
Time for some retraining for some teachers
Time for some teachers to exit the profession pdq
Time for some parents to parent properly

To the decent teachers among you - my every sympathy
It's like the police or prison guards - so many sadistic srseholes.

I would rather school addressed the risk of this happening than foster more issues around the toilet use in a school setting. I also once was a school pupil and we had no supervision outside toilets, nor were they locked at any point. We were allowed to use them freely. And it is still the case in other countries. Britain is obsessed with policing and bans. As if it solves the issue of unwanted behaviours.

Nobody seems to have mentioned that the most natural thing after eating a meal (lunch for example) is to have a bowel movement. It does not happen immediately but in 10-15 minutes, just when children have to go to the next lesson. They have to keep it in , which is a perfect way to get constipated and have associated bowel problems.

This thread shows that teachers (like prison guards) have lost empathy.

The teachers have lost or have never had a slightest idea what the schools are for. They are not to blame, they just follow the familiar path like most people in most situations.

Honestly, I would rather schools addressed the issue too.
But how?
I have no ideas of free ways to do this.
People were bullied in toilets when I was at school as well.

I think very little is done to address behaviours except more policing and punishment. Detention, isolation, exclusion are just some examples of how schools handle poor behaviour. Very little prevention and pastoral care, little care in general ( and I don't blame teachers for that by the way. I don't think any person would be able to maintain empathy and compassion when their profession has been reduced to ticking boxes, paperwork and discipline management).
People at the top are typically being promoted from teaching positions. And if they are part of external management who don't have experience and education in a relevant setting, then why the hell do we allow them to govern our children?

But I’m talking about a completely new schooling system. Totally new.
The current reason why they can’t send the kids to primaries in the afternoon is due to the pressure of an overzealous timetable and curriculum. The constant pressure of useless exams.

Im on about a curriculum that shows kids how to manage their finances, where all students garden every week….I mean properly garden and grow food.

Where all children learn psychology- so they understand themself and others.

Somewhere where children with additional needs are fully funded and thought about when it comes to school design. Somewhere children aren’t stifled to fit into boxes to go to uni or be seen as less if they choose not to.

All of that and more. And the outcome would hopefully be children who don’t want to wrench the taps off the toilet sinks!

I have 3 kids, twins in year 7, sadly in a very disruptive, underperforming school (we didn’t apply to this school, we are in the edge of catchment for an oversubscribed school and missed out on all of our choices) and a son waiting for specialist provision (currently attending mainstream for 6 hours a week).

When my son was diagnosed with autism they basically said “good luck” and discharged him. No support was offered at all for a child that cannot manage mainstream school! I’m lucky that I have experience of children with ASD & ADHD, but most parents don’t.

It’s not a “school” problem, it’s a societal one, but if a draconian system isn’t improving behaviour, schools will need to find other ways to manage, or close. What else is there?

but if a draconian system isn’t improving behaviour, schools will need to find other ways to manage, or close.

One might ask the schools involved whether the vandalism of toilets and poor behaviour outside of classrooms during lesson times has decreased since the toilets were locked.

Vandalism of toilets would have undoubtfully improved since nobody has access to them. But his vandalism would have likely moved elsewhere - home, local communities etc.

I dont agree with punishing all for a few.
I would be expelling a lot more kids.
But also have cameras on the entrances to the toilets.

It would be cheaper than paying someone to lock and unlock
I aldo dont agree with removing single sex toilets as girls are sat on dirty toilets. And easy way for bulkying to start from noises of d&v.
I would also have more girl knly schools in the hope of improving their behaviour.

I also had undiagnosed IBS as a teen and they did have these rules (they were only open at Lunchtime). My attendance was appalling and I have a lot of anxiety around toilets being locked still now (like most people with IBS).

I know vandalism is an issue but there needs to be a work around that's not only kids with medical passes, all children should be able to use the toilet when they need. I didn't get a medical pass because I hadn't been officially diagnosed and I probably wouldn't have wanted one because people would have asked why and it creates embarrassment.

Also so few toilet and mixed sex so slower usage.

I did notice lots of kids going out of every lesson to the toilet when doing tour of dd state seconday. There is no gap between lessons and only 40 min break.