To expect my 11 year old to be able to use the toilet during the school day?

[bendy75]

Is this the norm? My 11 year old started in at secondary school last month and has had two warnings (or stage 2 - Low level disruptions) for asking to use the toilet.

I told him to try and go at break times but he tells me they are locked, confirmed today by staff when I asked, children who have a medical need can apply for a toilet pass but he does not, so has to try and go from 8.00 am until returning home around 3.00pm without using the toilet.

AIBU to be shocked by this?

The toilets are indeed locked at break times at the moment due to staffing issues (I am not sure if there would be enough time anyway) but they are always open at lunch time (30 mins), the staff member did emphasise that all children with a medical need can have access at any time.

My son did say whenever he has tried to go at lunch the toilets are locked (I am now wondering if he means they are occupied).

He may mean occupied or there could be a delay in unlocking or only some unlocked or they are supposed to be unlocked but for some reason aren't being.

Worth checking with him and possibly asking school what is needed to get a medical pass - see if that's an option for him though from DD2 friends experiences that may not grant access as easily advertised but should help a bit.

Honestly that's disgusting. How can all pupils use the loo at lunchtime plus get their food and you know actually have some leisure time? Some schools are like prisons these days. I'd be organising a parent group. I doubt you're the only one that's worried about the health impacts.

I'm a secondary teacher. We can have up to 900 kids on break time at once so that's 450 boys and 450 girls. There are 10 boys' toilets and 10 girls' toilets. It doesn't take Carol Vorderman to work out that you can't get 450 kids through 10 toilets in 20 minutes. Even if you add on the 40 minute lunch then that's 450 kids though 10 toilets in 60 minutes. It's just not possible. For that reason I do let kids out of my lesson for the toilet but then it ends up with them all asking me as other teachers don't allow it. What makes it hard is that
A. Some kids take the mick
B. It's pretty disruptive to learning having kids in and out all the time.

Also, I occasionally have 3 hours without a toilet break and it's hard for us too. I have to ask colleagues to watch my class.

This is inhumane wtaf.
What about girls with periods, kids with ibs or just small bladders.
You don't have to ask to use the toilet at work it should be the same in school.. Definitely should have a period in the morning when they are available before the next lesson.

I wonder if the parent group wanting toilets open during lesson times with free access to them would be willing to foot the bill for any vandalism, and to pay for an extra member of staff to deal with the behaviour issues caused?

My school has toilets open during lessons, but from hearing about the destruction caused to toilets including fittings regularly being wrenched from the walls and floods in other schools (even at primary I've heard this), I can see why some schools might be forced to take this action.

I remember the toilets being locked during break time & lunch when I was in secondary school in the early 2000s due to the kids smoking. It was horrible.

My son has just started secondary and says the same - the big loos are always locked, breaks and lunch included and only a couple of disabled open and manned by teachers. So they can go, but they really don't make it easy. He dashes into the house from the bus for a wee most days!

Or maybe the outraged parent group could volunteer to be on toilet duty, then they could see first hand what schools are up against

My daughter, with a bladder dysfunction, attended a school with exactly this policy. I had to threaten legal action to get the policy changed.

I think one parent group did volunteer and didn't see why the school would refuse to have a bunch of well-meaning but clueless and untrained parents trying to deal with the sorts of kids in school who would be vandalising the toilets.

You say this as if there aren't plenty of schools out there who make it work and don't lock the toilets. It's not impossible.

So my son cannot go to the toilet because some pupils might do something bad to the precious toilet cubicles?

Why is it that the solution the school always chooses is to ban, to forbid, to restrict, to cancel?

If you realise that it is simply unacceptable to not allow children go to the toilets when they need, you would find other ways to deal with potential vandalism. But it is easier to apply the collective punishment.

Teachers are adults who have agency.

I had undiagnosed IBS as a teen, this would have been a total nightmare for me. I just wouldn't have been able to go to school for at least half the time

This also makes it sound like you don't think the parents should be outraged? Of course they should be! Regardless of the reasons it's unacceptable for kids to have no access to toilets.

why do you hate children so much?

Why would staff shortages affect toilets being locked or unlocked? I absolutely would not tolerate a staff member "supervising" my child while they go to the loo. The whole set up is obscene.
I don't understand the whole toilet policing issues in schools. Nowhere in the world of adulthood, did I ever need to ask permission to go to the toilet yet we routinely subject children to this humiliation in a school setting. Locking toilets is on another level and surely is in violation of the rights of children.
Not to mention that it will likely result in a child restricting fluids which is a health concern. If SOME children use toilet trips as a tactic to disrupt the class or their own learning, then the school needs to look for triggers to this behaviour and eliminate these. Not just deal with the consequences and punish the entire school as a preventative measure. Honestly, I don't know how people end up in teaching if they miss basic knowledge about child development and behaviour.

If something bad has been done to the 'precious' toilet cubicles then he won't be able to go to the toilet anyway because they will be broken.

I am not arguing that toilets should be kept locked at all times. I am saying that I understand why some schools may be forced to lock them during lesson times when there is no supervision. Obviously in that scenario, provision should be made for children with medical issues, or emergencies.

It is appalling if there isn't free access to toilets at break time. I wonder if it is even legal. Kids will stop drinking and get dehydrated, which is bad for their health -and their education (this is documented).
People have died because they 'held it in' and their bladder burst- a famous astronomer was one such. It amounts to cruel and degrading treatment, and what are kids supposed to do? Piss themselves?

Why would staff shortages affect toilets being locked or unlocked? I absolutely would not tolerate a staff member "supervising" my child while they go to the loo. The whole set up is obscene.

If you know what happens in toilets that are unsupervised, and consider whether you would like your child to be either exposed to it, or at risk of it happening to them, you might change your mind.

also, can you imagine the child protection issues of letting random parents watch kids in toilets?

One quick look on Google shows that holding urine is an important risk factor in UTIs.

This is a health issue.

(Nice work trying to make the 'outraged parents' seem unreasonable though 😂)

Staff have to supervise the toilets during breaks and lunches to ensure kids don't spend their entire break time in there (5 to a cubicle sometimes) and ensure everyone keeps moving so that everyone who needs to use the toilets can use them. They're also a rather intimidating place for some younger ones so having a teacher around can help. Surely that goes without saying!

This ….completely!

I am saying that I understand why some schools may be forced to lock them during lesson times when there is no supervision. Obviously in that scenario, provision should be made for children with medical issues, or emergencies.

"Some schools" must seek other solutions.

The breaks are so short that children don't have time to go to the toilets.

The need to go to the toilet is not a medical event, neither it is an emergency, and the "provision" you talk about should not be some kind of an exception.