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AIBU?

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Original poster

Did this really happen?! Why didn't I react?

139 replies

NCforthis23 · 09/10/2023 23:05

So today I was out shopping with DD who is a toddler and was in her pram.

We went to a large department store and got in the lift, an elderly couple got in. The lady took an immediate shine to DD and was trying to make her laugh.

The man positioned himself behind me and started rubbing my bum! I shifted forward away from him but said nothing and got out at the next floor.

I'm wracking my brains wondering why I did nothing. I feel ridiculous, I'm always so confident but I literally did nothing 😓

OP posts:
CherryMaDeara · 10/10/2023 08:12

R37sraY · 09/10/2023 23:44

When it happened to me I didn’t care. Maybe we were different on 1990.

What fresh hell is this. Now women are fault for caring about sexual abuse.

DriftingDora · 10/10/2023 08:13

Maddy70 · 10/10/2023 00:03

Oh stop it. I'm not justifying it. Im Asking could it have been a mistake ! I once had an awkward moment where I thought I was stroking my cat but it was my friends leg

Perhaps you need some help? Specsavers?

0hNoNotAgain · 10/10/2023 08:13

Please don't be too hard on yourself - you were in a very enclosed space and you had your baby with you - it's not surprising you froze, you just wanted to get out of there asap without anything kicking off that could upset/harm your child.

It doesn't matter when the man has dementia/alzheimers/whatever - his behaviour was unacceptable.

FiveShelties · 10/10/2023 08:18

Maddy70 · 10/10/2023 00:03

Oh stop it. I'm not justifying it. Im Asking could it have been a mistake ! I once had an awkward moment where I thought I was stroking my cat but it was my friends leg

Course you did. I have many friends with furry cat's legs and am always stroking them thinking it is a cat. Happens all the time.

Naunet · 10/10/2023 08:22

R37sraY · 09/10/2023 23:44

When it happened to me I didn’t care. Maybe we were different on 1990.

No, that’s just you, most women don’t see themselves as public property for any random to grab.

ssd · 10/10/2023 08:25

Issummernearlyover · 10/10/2023 07:27

I would think that the man had dementia.

That was my first thought.
Im sorry this happened to you op

Nonimai · 10/10/2023 08:25

I am really sorry this happened to you and you should report it. I will say one thing in that I know a lovely old gentleman who has become ‘free with his hands’ as a result of dementia. He really can’t be allowed to leave his house anymore although he goes to church and people are aware of the problem support him and his wife. This also happened to my grandfather. I’m sure this is a tiny minority of cases, and it certainly doesn’t justify any woman being groped, but your example did remind me of it.

CherryMaDeara · 10/10/2023 08:28

Issummernearlyover · 10/10/2023 07:27

I would think that the man had dementia.

I would think you’d look for any excuse to excuse a man from sexual abuse.

Naunet · 10/10/2023 08:32

CherryMaDeara · 10/10/2023 08:28

I would think you’d look for any excuse to excuse a man from sexual abuse.

Show quote history

Indeed, and even if it was the case, so what? Does that make OP any less assaulted?

GrazingSheep · 10/10/2023 08:33

Is the op there ???

DisquietintheRanks · 10/10/2023 08:36

R37sraY · 09/10/2023 23:44

When it happened to me I didn’t care. Maybe we were different on 1990.

Thats very different. Most of us did care - in 1990, 1980, 1970 and beyond. It is typical for women not to enjoy being sexually assaulted. It is also typical for us to freeze, as the OP did and then try and convince ourselves that "it wasn't that bad" because it's grim to feel both violated and powerless.
.

Gnomegnomegnome · 10/10/2023 08:40

R37sraY · 09/10/2023 23:44

When it happened to me I didn’t care. Maybe we were different on 1990.

Women were expected to put up and shut up. The ‘good old days!’.

It was never acceptable.

Hope you are okay op.

marshmallowfinder · 10/10/2023 08:44

R37sraY · 09/10/2023 23:44

When it happened to me I didn’t care. Maybe we were different on 1990.

Same. I would've just moved away and glared at the fucker. Or probably wondered if he thought he was holding his shopping bag, or a bit unsteady on his feet as the lift was moving. It really may not have been a calculated act.

KajsaKavat · 10/10/2023 08:46

I had this happen in a fully lacked tube train and when I finally managed to move away my friend told me afterwards that he then did it to her. Scum who depend on yoj being too shocked to act.

Naunet · 10/10/2023 08:50

marshmallowfinder · 10/10/2023 08:44

Same. I would've just moved away and glared at the fucker. Or probably wondered if he thought he was holding his shopping bag, or a bit unsteady on his feet as the lift was moving. It really may not have been a calculated act.

Show quote history

Why would you have glared at him if you didn’t care? Why not stand still and let him have a proper go? Is it because actually you did care after all?

WhatsCookingFlora · 10/10/2023 08:53

R37sraY · 09/10/2023 23:44

When it happened to me I didn’t care. Maybe we were different on 1990.

.......Congratulations?........

millymog11 · 10/10/2023 08:56

I don't blame you at all OP, it is shock.

My guess as to why this man did this is any combination of the following

  • he has done it for years and years without ever getting caught/reported. I believe a lot of older men are like this and have got away with casual sexual assault for a very long time without anyone making any kind of fuss
  • it was in a lift so he assumed no witnesses
  • he was with his wife who was making a fuss of your baby, so he assumed you were vulnerable/not going to make a fuss in front of his wife/whilst your baby was there
  • sheer downright entitlement and total lack of respect
Sadly a lot of men really are like this - if they think they will get away with it they will do it
Berlinlover · 10/10/2023 08:56

It happened to me on a bus over 20 years ago. I just panicked and got off at the next stop.

Fancylike · 10/10/2023 09:01

Please report to the store and police, it will make you feel better for having “actioned” something.
I had a man do something similar when I was looking at shoes in a sports venue. I froze, and only reported the next day. The venue gave the cc tv to police who arrested him at his workplace. He had other complaints against him and this was the caught in the act evidence they needed to charge him.

RudsyFarmer · 10/10/2023 09:02

You did nothing because;
a) in the scenario your brain wouldn’t let you believe that actually happened
b) social constraints mean many people will act in a way contrary to their feelings
c) you didn’t want to alarm your child or the lady
d) you weren’t prepared for a confrontation in a confined space
e) you needed time to process what happened and then the moment was gone.

Original poster
NCforthis23 · 10/10/2023 09:08

Thanks for everybody's responses.

I can see why I did what I did. It was a very strange feeling.

Something similar happened to me when I was in my twenties, a man just approached me on the street and grabbed my chest. In that situation though I was with friends and in an open place so I told him what a dirty pathetic perv he was and stood up for myself. This just felt so different and so unlike me not to react.

I'll consider reporting, I'm in the office tomorrow and it's near the shop I was in so ill have a think about it.

I haven't even told anybody tbh, feel a bit silly if that makes sense.

OP posts:
5128gap · 10/10/2023 09:10

Issummernearlyover · 10/10/2023 07:27

I would think that the man had dementia.

If inappropriate sexual behaviour towards women is a sign of dementia, the rates amongst men of all ages are alarming. I wonder if the WHO are aware?
The older man is far less likely to be suffering from dementia than not. Let's not jump to pathologise sexual assault. It's a short step from that to 'Don't say anything, poor man can't help it'.

5128gap · 10/10/2023 09:20

ssd · 10/10/2023 08:25

That was my first thought.
Im sorry this happened to you op

Show quote history

Why would it be your first thought? The odds are very much against it. The vast majority of older men walking around town don't have dementia. The vast majority of sexual assailants don't have dementia either, so its seems a strange leap.
Its also irrelevant to the OP. She is the victim of an assault. Why do we need to jump through hoops to find a way to not only excuse her assailant, but centre him in our empathy as a victim of a health condition?

EnjoythemoneyJane · 10/10/2023 09:22

It’s how predators are able to do this in plain sight - they know that shock and social conditioning will allow them to get away with it almost all of the time, and on the odd occasion they get called out they can fall back on plausible deniability. Plus it happens in seconds, no time at all to really process what’s happening.

You didn’t react because as women we are caught between our natural instincts - the constant vigilance we develop even as young girls to keep ourselves safe - and the societal pressure to ‘be nice’ that’s drilled into us from childhood. Be quiet, smile, don’t make a fuss, don’t make other people feel uncomfortable - especially in public. It’s that conditioning that completely overwhelms us in situations like this and causes us to question and suppress our natural reactions. That didn’t really just happen, did it? And in a moment of shock and uncertainty we default to saying nothing.

What he did was a violation of your bodily autonomy. It’s shit and I understand why you’re upset - it’s that horrible feeling of impotent rage that you woulda/shoulda/coulda said or done something at the time and didn’t.

Lost count of the number of times shit like this happened to me in the 80s and 90s and I was too surprised or confused to react (and to the pp who suggested it was no biggie back then, it very much fucking was, thanks - I’m still incandescent about some of the groping and assault I was subjected to, and the entitlement and arrogance of the disgusting pigs who perpetrated it). Sorry I can’t be more constructive, OP, other than to say taking a boxing class or something. Imagining punching him repeatedly in the face might help get it out of your system.

getulou · 10/10/2023 09:30

This used to happen to me on the tube a lot, back in the 90s. I haven't had it happen to me for years, the last time was in a crowded event in Portugal about 5 years ago. I have always reacted but I'm not the type to draw attention to myself or speak up. I've responded by kicking or stepping on their feet, sometimes thumping them right in the crotch. It has always stopped the behaviour and nobody else has ever noticed what happened, or they didn't mention if if they did. I think a lot of my personality traits are in opposition to social conditioning, I've made life decisions which don't really fit into social norms, so a lot of my behaviours aren't what you might expect from a nice young woman.