Collective Punishment - No water, no food, no medicines

[Lieblingsessen]

I do not condone whatsoever what the Hamas attacks on civilians in Israel or their ideology

But surely, Israel laying siege to Gaza, preventing innocent civilians from accessing water, food, medicines, electricity for hospital equipment, is not justifiable. To collectively punish civilians who have no control over what Hamas or their government does. This is medieval.

Where is the outcry on the mainstream media about this? Surely it is not being anti-semitic to call out Israel, that retaliation is not unexpected, but collective punishment is horrendous.

This has already been discussed up thread. Even if Egypt were able to open the border, it wouldn't be enough to relieve Gaza's problems. And as the Israeli government has stated that they want to teach Gaza a lesson that will reverberate for generations, it's likely that Israel wouldn't look kindly on Egypt allowing aid into the Gaza Strip.

Israel has blockaded Gaza for 16 years and controlled their trade, water, electric, borders for that time. This idea that ‘Israel is not Gaza’s mum’ is fucking ridiculous. They have trapped people in a tiny strip of land and controlled their lives for 16 years.

I condemn Hamas actions in killing Israeli civilians and tourists/visitors. I also condemn Israeli soldiers, on behalf of their government, killing innocent Palestinian civilians. However their people are brutalised and killed, both sides actions are atrocious.

When is an eye for an eye ever going to be enough on both sides?

They didn't like /want the corruption they had so they voted for hammas but there is question marks over that voting. Once hammas in they have seized power and repressed.

It may or may not be right but it’s definitely understandable, Isreal has been unexpectedly invaded, teenagers being used as target practise, homes invaded woman raped, children killed and also kidnapped being used as hostages… what exactly do you expect Isreal to do? If this was England you would be expecting the government to fight back.

Being the bigger person is all well and good when it’s not your own people on your doorstep being slaughtered.

Mumsnet needs to be more strict with hate speech against Palestinians. Some people on this site are absolutely out of controle.

Despicable. Absolutely despicable .

To whoever asked about aids through Gaza port here :
Since 2007, the Port of Gaza has been under an Israeli-imposed naval blockade as part of a blockade of Gaza strip and activities at the port have been restricted to small-scale fishing.

100%.

Can anyone here tell me why the Arabs rejected a two state solution back in the 1930s and 1940s when I understand the British first proposed it? And have there ever been any apologies for the system of dhimmitude? Any attempts at reparation for it? I asked on the other thread but I'm really hoping some of you have better answers. I'm trying to understand the root causes of this whole thing.

For those (rightfully) denouncing Hamas terrible acts, and demanding that everyone start saying that it justifies crimes against humanity. Do you you denounce all the same acts that Israeli have done to Palestinians as vividly? You should.

Hamas committed the crime not the entire population of Gaza.

It is totally unacceptable to carry out crime against civilians on anyside.

Your response sounds unstable.

You are right Israel is not the mother of Gaza.

So Free palastine from the open air prison Israel has created.

These people need freedom and the removal of apartheid imposed by Israel.

There are some strange ‘facts’ on this thread. Not sure where people are getting there data but it is a bit like trying to watch five year olds explain physics to each other.

We were told to fact check that horrific video of that poor Israeli woman from a few days ago because it is ‘fake’ but now everything reported about Gaza is suddenly iron clad the truth. People can’t have it both ways.

It is a fucking awful situation and this time entirely caused by Hamas. They aren’t noble freedom fighters looking for a better future for their people. They’re jihadis who live on death and pride and have probably just offered up every Palestinian in Gaza as a blood sacrifice as part of their lunatic end game.

I am NOT saying that thing done by Israel aren’t horrible, they absolutely are. But how else did people expect them to respond to such a violent invasion- sing songs? Ignore it? They cannot allow the people of Gaza out because there is no way of knowing how many jihadis would be hiding in the crowd and they can’t allow deliveries in just in case it is a further supply of arms.

As much as the state of Israel is often quite mad, I don’t see how they can defend themselves AND prop up the state of Gaza so that civilians don’t die. Hamas are well know for using civilians as human shields so how they hell do you root them out.

Also, Hamas are just some psycho group. They are the official government of Gaza. They’ve essentially declared war on Israel. Perhaps they should have thought about buying more provisions and fewer rocket launchers before they went totally off the reservation. It was their fucking responsibility as the elected government!

I was watching Simon Reeves when he visited Gaza. He was talking to the fishermen who were talking about how far they could fish and how the waters did not have much fish in them. All under the eye of the Israeli Navy who controlled how far they could go.

And all that time there is a border with Egypt, and they ALSO have not helped with electric, food and trade. Why is that? Why are you not outraged by Egypt?

Gaza has its own water desalination plant btw. That belongs to Gaza and is run by Gaza for Gaza.

Maybe read about that and why the taxes that Gazan Palestinians pay are used for buying missiles and not for keeping their water flowing.

Where? Where is this hate speech? Quote it or at least point it out clearly!

There is no anti-Palestinian rhetoric.

Lots of anti-Hamas but that's not what you're saying.

22 people in the UK (population approx 70m) died in the Manchester attacks. Very sad, but not on a remotely comparable scale as the 1,000 ish murdered plus 130 hostages still out there, in Israel (population approx 9m, Jewish population approx 7m).

So in a country with a Jewish population a tenth of the size, about 50 times as many people were killed. So in relative terms, an event about 500 times as bad.

Imagine therefore that at Manchester, instead of 22 children dying in a bombing, 11,000 babies, children, young people, whole families and the elderly had been raped, chased down and shot at point-black range, beheaded, their teen daughters raped, had their naked corpses dragged through the streets and spat on, and that were still 1,300 hostages, ranging from babies to young children whose parents were murdered in front of them, to parents to elderly women, who the terrorists were threatening to murder live on video, with audio, if we didn't do exactly what they wanted? [11,000 and 1,300 being to put this to scale for the comparable size of the UK population.)

Now tell me that the British public would be right on for feeding, watering and medicating the entire country that the terrorists came from, forever??!!

WTF?

You do not live in the real world.

If you want to practice forgiveness and kindly nurture of the dear ones who tell you daily they want to murder all British people, you do you. Just you don't get to tell others how to stop the genocidal maniacs who just murdered their children this weekend.

You just fucking don't.

No, that's Hammas.

Of course Egypt could open the border and the rest of the Arab states could fund countless aid and take refugees with their vast wealth but they won’t and will continue to play the situation for their own political purposes.

I agree. It is terrifying.

But why the blame is with Israel, and not with Hamas? They knew exactly what will happen, and they did nothing to prevent it or to protect people living in Gaza Strip. What do you call a government that deliberately places its people in danger, making civilians pay for their ideology?
I feel incredibly sorry for all the innocent people dying in Gaza area, but - have you seen what actually happened to people, especially females, captured by Hamas fighters? Like, the videos of what they did to them? Or little kids kidnapped, torn away from their parents? 260 (at least) dead at the peaceful music festival? I kind of feel Israel had enough at this point.

Israel also "discuss" with Egypt about the border. People who keep innocently asking "why does Egypt not help Gaza?" . It's because of pressures, really. So stop pretending you are naive and stop defending inhumane treatment of Palestinians. And stop trying to make us believe Palestinians are problematic and deserve what they are going through.

The situations are not really comparable. Manchester and Brussels weren't bombarded with rockets and had their citizens raped and murdered by terrorists going house to house whose avowed aim was to destroy those cities.

Don't get me wrong I think what is happening to the Palestinian people is horrific and I really can't see a solution. Surely some kind of humanitarian corridor could be opened through Egypt at least for women and children but the Egyptians are not keen to do so.

Hammas are terrorists and the Palestinian people deserve better. They knew when they launched the attacks that this would be the response and I agree with others that there is definitely involvement at least from Iran if not other entities.

The whole thing is tragic and ordinary Palestinians and Israelis are the ones who will suffer.

Why are you not outraged by Egypt?

Christ, stop banging that drum. The Gaza Strip is Israel's prison. It's Israel bombing them. Stop blaming other countries for not clearing up the mess. Egypt is likely intimidated by Israel.

Probably because it was their land for generations and they couldn’t understand why they should hand it over to the new entrants.