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Original poster

To not understand what is going on between Israel & Palestine?

326 replies

sweetblue · 09/10/2023 18:44

I know I sound really naive here and I should know what is going on in the news but I don't really know much and I'd like to educate myself.

Can anyone explain in simple terms what is happening between the two? I have seen a few famous people saying they stand with Israel on social media and getting flamed for it. Also Rishi Sunak tweeting the same today.

Do most support Palestine then? Is the "right" thing to do or is there just two sides to every story here? I'd like to understand what is happening but don't know where to start

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
DownNative · 10/10/2023 08:57

Following for now....

1dayatatime · 10/10/2023 08:58

@MisschiefMaker

"Then how is Israel able to turn off access to its electricity"

+++

There are no Israeli power stations in Gaza.

The reason Israel is able to turn off Gaza's electricity is that until recently Israel was kindly supplying Gaza with electricity generated in Israel. This is despite Hamas declared hostility to Israel.

Incidentally Gaza still has a border with Egypt at Rafah. The challenge there is that it is heavily restricted by Egypt after Hamas backed terrorists were using Gaza as a base to attack Egypt in Northern Sinai.

Goodmirror · 10/10/2023 09:13

Helpful thread, thank you

ginandtonicwithlimes · 10/10/2023 09:21

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 09/10/2023 20:10

And the other side of the coin is that Israel is defending itself from a Palestinian government who have repeatedly stated nothing short of Israels complete obliteration will satisfy them.

Show quote history

To be fair that seems to be the aim of Israel too against the Palestinians.

zyymom · 10/10/2023 09:31

1dayatatime · 10/10/2023 08:58

@MisschiefMaker

"Then how is Israel able to turn off access to its electricity"

+++

There are no Israeli power stations in Gaza.

The reason Israel is able to turn off Gaza's electricity is that until recently Israel was kindly supplying Gaza with electricity generated in Israel. This is despite Hamas declared hostility to Israel.

Incidentally Gaza still has a border with Egypt at Rafah. The challenge there is that it is heavily restricted by Egypt after Hamas backed terrorists were using Gaza as a base to attack Egypt in Northern Sinai.

Kindly supplying Gaza?

Oh fantastic, hurray for israel, I mean that's the leaaaast they could do for occupying the Palestinians land for so long and killing millions of them!

Efacsen · 10/10/2023 09:36

Incidentally Gaza still has a border with Egypt at Rafah. The challenge there is that it is heavily restricted by Egypt after Hamas backed terrorists were using Gaza as a base to attack Egypt in Northern Sinai.

A further challenge is that the Rafah border crossing was bombed by Israel yesterday so is currently closed/non-functioning

CaveMum · 10/10/2023 09:53

Just dropping the recommendation to listen to the “Rest Is Politics” podcast episode that dropped yesterday again. Rory Stewart does a good job of summarising the background to the Arab/Israeli conflicts over the years and what has led to this point.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-rest-is-politics/id1611374685

The Rest Is Politics on Apple Podcasts

‎The Rest Is Politics on Apple Podcasts

‎News · 2023

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-rest-is-politics/id1611374685

Haffiana · 10/10/2023 09:55

Efacsen · 10/10/2023 09:36

Incidentally Gaza still has a border with Egypt at Rafah. The challenge there is that it is heavily restricted by Egypt after Hamas backed terrorists were using Gaza as a base to attack Egypt in Northern Sinai.

A further challenge is that the Rafah border crossing was bombed by Israel yesterday so is currently closed/non-functioning

Not true. It was closed for a day or so. The Rafah border is now open as normal.

Acorn55 · 10/10/2023 10:06

OP, this article is explains what happened to Palestine and the Palestinian people after the fall of the Ottoman Empire in 1922. (I’d like to understand more about how this happened though).
https://lsa.umich.edu/content/dam/cmenas-assets/cmenas-documents/unit-of-israel-palestine/Section1_BritishMandateInPalestine.pdf

https://lsa.umich.edu/content/dam/cmenas-assets/cmenas-documents/unit-of-israel-palestine/Section1_BritishMandateInPalestine.pdf

MariePaperRoses · 10/10/2023 10:15

As Golda Meir said "If Palestinians laid down their weapons there would be no war. If Israel laid down their weapons there would be a massacre."
And "There would be peace if when Palestinians love their children as much as they hate the Jews."

Iwasafool · 10/10/2023 10:25

Yes Gold Meir the Russian born, American raised woman who was happy to displace Palestinians. Obviously she never noticed the terrorism the Zionists perpetrated on Palestine.

MisschiefMaker · 10/10/2023 10:33

MariePaperRoses · 10/10/2023 10:15

As Golda Meir said "If Palestinians laid down their weapons there would be no war. If Israel laid down their weapons there would be a massacre."
And "There would be peace if when Palestinians love their children as much as they hate the Jews."

But these are just words and completely at odds with the actions of Israel.

We literally have a control group: the West Bank. There is no Hamas in the West Bank and they are relatively peaceful. Yet they are still under Israeli occupation.

Also, Gaza tried the peaceful way, they marched for over a year in 2018 during the Great March of Return asking for the right of return for refugees. In retaliation Israel slaughtered hundreds of them, and wounded tens of thousands with their bullets. Zero Israeli civilians were killed, and only 1 soldier.

Israel has fantastic PR and says all the right things but should we believe what they say when it is so clearly the opposite of what they do?

DownNative · 10/10/2023 10:39

MisschiefMaker · 10/10/2023 10:33

But these are just words and completely at odds with the actions of Israel.

We literally have a control group: the West Bank. There is no Hamas in the West Bank and they are relatively peaceful. Yet they are still under Israeli occupation.

Also, Gaza tried the peaceful way, they marched for over a year in 2018 during the Great March of Return asking for the right of return for refugees. In retaliation Israel slaughtered hundreds of them, and wounded tens of thousands with their bullets. Zero Israeli civilians were killed, and only 1 soldier.

Israel has fantastic PR and says all the right things but should we believe what they say when it is so clearly the opposite of what they do?

Show quote history

Hamas has support in the West Bank AND there are other armed factions in that territory too. Lion's Den is one.

Palestinian pollster Khalil Shikaki and his Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PCPSR) found that 72% of Palestinians support forming more armed groups in West Bank.

No terrorist groups in West Bank?! 🤦‍♂️

beachcitygirl · 10/10/2023 10:55

@UsernamenotavailableBob

People are flying Palestinian flags in support of Palestine people being subjected to collective punishment by Israel.

It's entirely possible to condemn Hamas & their atrocities and be disgusted at the actions of Israel.

My
Sympathies lie with the innocent victims in Israel & Gaza
Not I'm afraid with privileged people in the UK or US who do not have one ounce of empathy for the citizens (mostly children ) of Gaza who are being exterminated by Israel and can only thing to make it about themselves

Mustardseed86 · 10/10/2023 10:57

MisschiefMaker · 10/10/2023 10:33

But these are just words and completely at odds with the actions of Israel.

We literally have a control group: the West Bank. There is no Hamas in the West Bank and they are relatively peaceful. Yet they are still under Israeli occupation.

Also, Gaza tried the peaceful way, they marched for over a year in 2018 during the Great March of Return asking for the right of return for refugees. In retaliation Israel slaughtered hundreds of them, and wounded tens of thousands with their bullets. Zero Israeli civilians were killed, and only 1 soldier.

Israel has fantastic PR and says all the right things but should we believe what they say when it is so clearly the opposite of what they do?

Show quote history

The March of Return was not a peaceful protest by any stretch of the imagination!

beachcitygirl · 10/10/2023 10:58

Fabulous editorial in Israeli newspaper Haaretz today

www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2023-10-08/ty-article-opinion/netanyahu-bears-responsibility/0000018b-0b9d-d8fc-adff-6bfd1c880000

UsernamenotavailableBob · 10/10/2023 11:01

beachcitygirl · 10/10/2023 10:55

@UsernamenotavailableBob

People are flying Palestinian flags in support of Palestine people being subjected to collective punishment by Israel.

It's entirely possible to condemn Hamas & their atrocities and be disgusted at the actions of Israel.

My
Sympathies lie with the innocent victims in Israel & Gaza
Not I'm afraid with privileged people in the UK or US who do not have one ounce of empathy for the citizens (mostly children ) of Gaza who are being exterminated by Israel and can only thing to make it about themselves

Please read my posts I feel you've misunderstood them and read what you want to read.

When I have friends here in the UK who are fearful because they are Jewish because idiots don't understand Zionism and are being offensively antisemitic. There are videos going round of pro-Hamas supporters in Western countries chanting "gas the Jews". Tell me why this is allowed to happen on our doorstep, to our friends and colleagues and children?

My sympathies are with any innocent party caught up in this. That includes those on our shores.

beachcitygirl · 10/10/2023 11:14

@UsernamenotavailableBob

I'm responding to your comment saying people are flying the Palestine flag in London. You didn't (in that post mention videos of people celebrating Hamas) - that is vile and unforgivable. Hamas need stopped.

No one in the UK or US is in the dangerous position that innocent citizens in Palestine are in right now thanks to collective punishment/genocide being committed by Israel

I'm afraid in the face of such behaviour by Israel my empathy for all the stand with Israel virtue signalling is low.

I stand with innocents & against warmongering politicians & vicious murderers & terrorists

beachcitygirl · 10/10/2023 11:17

Israeli politician Tally Gotliv, from Netanyahu's party, just called for the use of a nuclear bomb on Gaza.

Genocide & deranged given how many innocent Israelis would also die.

UsernamenotavailableBob · 10/10/2023 11:18

beachcitygirl · 10/10/2023 11:14

@UsernamenotavailableBob

I'm responding to your comment saying people are flying the Palestine flag in London. You didn't (in that post mention videos of people celebrating Hamas) - that is vile and unforgivable. Hamas need stopped.

No one in the UK or US is in the dangerous position that innocent citizens in Palestine are in right now thanks to collective punishment/genocide being committed by Israel

I'm afraid in the face of such behaviour by Israel my empathy for all the stand with Israel virtue signalling is low.

I stand with innocents & against warmongering politicians & vicious murderers & terrorists

I assume you haven't seen the photos from Golders Green then? Shops are being smashed up. Free Palestine is being graffitied. These aren't people who are anti-zionist/pro-palestine these are the actions of antisemitic/pro-hamas groups.

beachcitygirl · 10/10/2023 11:20

I hadn't but have now. These people are despicable. I condemn this unequivocally

Iwasafool · 10/10/2023 15:27

beachcitygirl · 10/10/2023 11:17

Israeli politician Tally Gotliv, from Netanyahu's party, just called for the use of a nuclear bomb on Gaza.

Genocide & deranged given how many innocent Israelis would also die.

Makes a bit of a mockery of Golda Meir's statement.

DownNative · 10/10/2023 15:47

beachcitygirl · 10/10/2023 11:17

Israeli politician Tally Gotliv, from Netanyahu's party, just called for the use of a nuclear bomb on Gaza.

Genocide & deranged given how many innocent Israelis would also die.

Talk like that is one of the things NATO Strategic Communications Centre of Excellence advises against making.

It plays into the hands of terrorist groups like Hamas who have no qualms about using civilians as human shields and launching rockets from civilian infrastructure.

I hope the Israeli Government can rein in politicians like him.

Haffiana · 10/10/2023 16:22

Just watching the news footage of the Israeli settlement of Kfar Aza near the border with Gaza. Scores of people were burned alive in their homes. Over 200 dead, they are still collecting and identifying the bodies. 40 babies have been found killed in Kfar Aza, many of them with their heads cut off.

There is no coming back from this for Gaza.