To think there should be much more awareness among cyclists that black and flouro yellow is absolutely rubbish for visibility in some areas?

[HauntedGusset]

Let me start by saying I have no problem with cyclists using roads. I give them space, I hang back, I only ever overtake when it is definitely safe to do so despite this often enraging the driver behind me.

BUT.

I live really rurally. The main road through my village is a very popular one with cyclists as it is a 20 mile trip through a beautiful river valley. It's twisty, its turny, it's uppy downy. It also passes in and out of thick woodland along the whole route. So visibility is crap full stop.

A worrying majority of the cyclists I see on this road are wearing black and flouro yellow. This means they show up beautifully on the few open sections of road where it passes through villages and would therefore be great in urban areas, but makes them almost completely invisible when going in and out of tree shade or along tree lined roads. The black and yellow just blend in perfectly with the dappled shade through leaves on tarmac. You just can't see them until you're almost on top of them because the hi vis they've chosen isn't hi vis at all in the conditions they're actually riding in! It's practically camouflage.

Sometimes they have lights on, but all too often if it's daylight they don't. One I only just saw last week was in black and yellow with a black rucksack, nothing reflective, but a red flashing light on a rucksack strap that had fallen to the side so wasn't visible until you were to the side of him! Reflective strips are more common but they're not that much use when it's light as cars often don't have headlights on in the daytime (my current car does because it's got running lights, but that's not standard).

Every now and then I see a cyclist using bright pink, orange, or blue, and they stand out so well! You can spot them even in the mix of sun and shade that makes the black and yellow ones almost invisible.

It's so common for the "hi vis" they wear to be black with yellow bits that I assume it just isn't known about? Can any cyclists tell me if they know this?

How about drivers endeavour to be more mindful of light/trees etc and cyclists protect themselves by wearing a mix of bright colours?

Yep. I'm absolutely hyper aware of the hi-vis-acting-as-camouflage phenomenon now, and I drive with extreme caution on this road especially at weekends

interesting your message was solely to cyclists though and not to other motorists

So these aren't very good photos but they were taken (by my passenger!) yesterday on the road I refer to in my OP.

There are two cyclists, and the one in front is dressed in black with flouro yellow highlights and helmet. You can just about see his helmet in one photo but see how it blends in with the leaves? That's what I'm talking about! And on a sunny day it's even worse - yesterday was cloudy so there wasn't the added issue of shade and sun contrast.

Neither are visible enough at all IMO but at least the red helmet doesn't just disappear into the scenery like the yellow does! They had lights that flashed when they pedalled but if they stopped pedalling the lights went out - what's that about?!? Useless! Bearing in mind this is a national speed limit A road I just don't think those clothing colour choices are at all sensible. I was stuck behind them for over 5 minutes (nearly 10) as I was driving a work van which is really long so wouldn't have been safe to overtake 2 cyclists at any point.

Oh OP! This thread is six pages long, hasn't the hornet's nest been poked enough?!!

There are entrenched positions on both side, I don't think you going to get the resolution you want!

I can only see one page and it's hardly "a hornets' nest", it's a pretty polite discussion with some posters not really being aware of or able to visualise the camouflaging effect that others describe. I happened to get a photo that I think illustrates it quite well yesterday so I shared it. Sorry that this has annoyed you. You didn't have to click or post!

Fair do's. It's your thread after all!

Cyclists shouldn't even have to wear high vis. Use your eyes.

And stop fuelling the anti cyclist rhetoric. You're the one killing the planet.

Absolutely no one wants to stop cyclists. I live on a one car width uphill lane, most weekends it takes me 5 minutes to drive a few hundred metres as I’m behind a cyclist puffing their way up. I don’t begrudge them that at all.

All we ask is there’s some recognition of the specific situations in rural environments where it’s really bloody hard to see Sunday Steve dressed in his favourite black team kit.

I'm glad of cyclists wearing high vis that's actually visible when I'm walking along tree lined shared use paths.

There's lots of cyclists v motorists threads. This isn't one of them, despite a small minority trying to make it one instead of seeing that it's constructive and helpful.

I wonder how many drivers have sunglasses in the car? Ready to use with low bright sun, there are far to many crashes with drivers blinded by the low autumn sun. Yet so many don’t wear sunglasses or have them in the car.
this is a real risk for cyclists, if the driver hits another car maybe it’ll be ok everyone unhurt, but if they hit a cyclist they can’t see - they could be badly injured. No amount of clothing or kit will change that for the cyclist, but sunglasses for the driver would definitely help

I do alot of rural driving and recognise the phenomena well that you're talking about. I suggest accepting your reduced vision and driving accordingly. If you're regularly suddenly encountering people you haven't seen in these conditions and you're still driving like you've got perfect vision you're a muppet.

I use sunglasses in the car. So does my DH, but his are corrective, he's very shortsighted. So he can't just whip them on and off as lighting conditions vary.

They're definitely useful but there can be downsides.

I have high quality reaction ones for driving. They have a near zero to very light tint. Counter intuitive as it might seem wearing sunnies with a really minimal tint makes it easier to see in the conditions OP is describing

I'm a cyclist, Walker and Lycra clad jogger....oh I also drive.
I wear an orange vest with reflective stripes front and back, orange reflective arm and leg bands. And a torch if needed for running / walking. My bike has a good front and back torch. The rear red light is on flashing if in urban areas, on solid red in rural, front light is always on. Ddog has a bright pink reflective colour and clip on lights on her harness. It's not difficult, it needed be expensive.
Car / van / lorry drivers do need to slow down, they need to calm down too, they need to be anticipating and concentrating and not going off into 'lalala land'. Have to admit I find motorcyclist the most considerate road uses, maybe because they have better awareness of danger, I dunno, but I've never had a near miss with a motorcyclist. Van drivers are the worst...but might be different in different areas.
All road uses need to be aware of potential hazards. I'm aware that my 'silent' bike, could freak a horse out, so when cycling I'm fully aware of what is going on around me, same as when I drive, jog or walk. Like so much in life it's about being aware and thinking of others.

Needn't not needed!

I do drive accordingly. I'm careful and considerate and in 20 years driving have never even had a speeding ticket. I did in fact open my first post with an explanation that I always drive as carefully round cyclists as I can and give them as much space as I can. I was taught to give them as much space as I'd give a car, and that is what I do. Many other drivers do not do this, and will tailgate or even overtake me and a cyclist on a blind bend, but I can't be held responsible for their shitty driving!

However, I think it's also worth letting cyclists on MN know that if they want to be easily seen, another colour might work better.

I'm not the hi vis police. Cyclists can wear what they want, but an informed choice is always a good thing, right? If someone thinks they're making themselves visible but in fact they aren't, a polite message on MN asking them to consider it isn't going to do any harm. After all cyclists wear hi vis because they want to be seen, so letting them know that it isn't always effective in certain conditions is perhaps even.... helpful?

I wear glasses already and personally find that my prescription sunglasses make visibility worse! Though someone I know said they find yellow tinted glasses helpful for avoiding dazzle from those horrifically bright LED headlight bulbs that might be great for the driver of that car, but blind everyone else around them!

@Keepithidden @PinkRoses1245
As a cyclist, I think this is a really useful thread. I hadn’t personally realised that different colours of hi-vis are appropriate in different settings. I don’t think it’s a thread that demonises cyclists, or motorists. I think it’s one of the more measured threads on Mumsnet.
No one is forcing anyone to wear hi-vis, but as road users we all owe it to each other to go carefully, and also to give other road users the best possible chance of spotting us.
We sadly don’t live in an accident-free utopia, and even careful drivers with perfectly good eyesight could hit a cyclist or pedestrian who wasn’t themselves taking enough care. So why not all take steps to minimise that risk by making ourselves as visible as possible.