To think there should be much more awareness among cyclists that black and flouro yellow is absolutely rubbish for visibility in some areas?

[HauntedGusset]

Let me start by saying I have no problem with cyclists using roads. I give them space, I hang back, I only ever overtake when it is definitely safe to do so despite this often enraging the driver behind me.

BUT.

I live really rurally. The main road through my village is a very popular one with cyclists as it is a 20 mile trip through a beautiful river valley. It's twisty, its turny, it's uppy downy. It also passes in and out of thick woodland along the whole route. So visibility is crap full stop.

A worrying majority of the cyclists I see on this road are wearing black and flouro yellow. This means they show up beautifully on the few open sections of road where it passes through villages and would therefore be great in urban areas, but makes them almost completely invisible when going in and out of tree shade or along tree lined roads. The black and yellow just blend in perfectly with the dappled shade through leaves on tarmac. You just can't see them until you're almost on top of them because the hi vis they've chosen isn't hi vis at all in the conditions they're actually riding in! It's practically camouflage.

Sometimes they have lights on, but all too often if it's daylight they don't. One I only just saw last week was in black and yellow with a black rucksack, nothing reflective, but a red flashing light on a rucksack strap that had fallen to the side so wasn't visible until you were to the side of him! Reflective strips are more common but they're not that much use when it's light as cars often don't have headlights on in the daytime (my current car does because it's got running lights, but that's not standard).

Every now and then I see a cyclist using bright pink, orange, or blue, and they stand out so well! You can spot them even in the mix of sun and shade that makes the black and yellow ones almost invisible.

It's so common for the "hi vis" they wear to be black with yellow bits that I assume it just isn't known about? Can any cyclists tell me if they know this?

This has never occurred to me.

Thank you for pointing it out. I am rethinking my clothing choices, especially for my children crossing the road. Too young to ride on the road yet but I want to be sure when they eventually do that they do what they can to be seen.

It's more when you're in and out of shade among trees that it's hard to see. Which is, I agree, a specific circumstance!

That article is very very interesting, thanks for posting.

"Aviation research shows that contrast is the single most important factor in determining the likelihood of acquiring an object visually. This is why military aircraft camouflage is designed to tone down their contrast. On the ground, dark-coloured vehicles or clothing will result in reduced contrast against most usual backgrounds, and this is why high-visibility clothing (for pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists) and/or bright lights are so important, in the daytime as well as at night."

This bit seems particularly relevant here! It's about contrast. If the scenery around you is a mix of black tarmac, yellow sunlight patches, and bright green and yellow leaves.... then black with yellow highlights is a terrible contrast.

Don't worry OP - whenever you suggest that people on bikes (and indeed, walking) should wear hi vis in low light you get told you should get an eye test.

I am also in the "it's better to be visible than dead" camp.

And I would not apply this only to cyclists - as the clocks go back in a couple of weeks, I'd suggest making sure that anyone reading this does not wear black coats. Get some sort of hi vis armband if nothing else.

I did not know about the yellow and pink thing. I have running t-shirts with material which lights me up like a Christmas tree when car lights pick it up, but it's not as good when there are no lights eg for another pedestrian to see me.

A lot of people wear lights, I am not sure they are that great as they can blind you if they are too bright (see also those awful white headlights on cars).

I am also in the "it's better to be visible than dead" camp.

I agree.

I was ignorant about how difficult cyclists or pedestrians are to see in low light or the shade of overhanging trees until I found a cyclist, who had been completely invisible to me, a few feet from my bumper after I pulled out at a junction. I used to ride a motorbike so I'm really vigilant.

The road I live on has no pavement so when I walk the dog at night I'm lit up like a Christmas tree with a powerful head torch and reflective slap bands everywhere.

Why have so many posts been deleted? Did some trollery go over my head??

There was an advert when I was young "Wear something white at night "

I am also in the "it's better to be visible than dead" camp
Same here, though like pp most of my flouro is whatever was on offer when I was buying kit.
I don't tend to wear black but this thread has given me some food for thought.

I’ve been a horse rider, runner and now cyclist on country roads all my life and have always worn high bus- generally yellow. Don’t have many wooded /tree lined areas around here so probably why the yellow has always worked. If I don’t have yellow jacket on all my cycling jerseys are brightly coloured- But many of my fellow cyclists won’t wear bright colours and really can’t be seen even on the brightest of days - they won’t listen - it’s mainly men I’m afraid 😢

I drive and I cycle. I still see people riding bicycles at this time of year while dressed in dark colours and without lights. They’re all but invisible and I worry for their life expectancy. I wear a lot of fluoro orange but maybe I should be considering pink.

I completely agree and wa thinking about this the other day. Horse rider in yellow/green high vis which would have been awesome in a few weeks when the leaves have turned/fallen off but right now just blends in with the green leaves - especially at certain times of day when the sun is lower. Pink would be better right now - or orange.

I'm an urban cyclist and my current jacket is hi viz yellow. I didn't know this was a problem on rural roads, I'll try and remember this if I go for a longer ride.

I have a variety of cycling clothes, but I tend to pick whatever is clean that day, whether it's my yellow/black or pink/silver or navy/silver.

I tend to think my bike is bright with reflective elements and I use lights, so with bright clothing that should surely be enough.

I'll endeavour to be a bit more mindful... Thank you

Think of it in human evolutionary terms - we've evolved to spot ripe berries and fruits against a sea of greens, yellows, browns and blacks. The one fungus people are guaranteed to spot in a wood is the Fly Agaric - but along with colour blindness, pure red can fade more into the background in some conditions, such as in low light at dusk, where the remaining frequencies are blue-violet.

Pink (like the pink used in a fair amount of football kit) will stand out against all the colours of nature. Add in reflective strips that light you up like a beacon, white sleeves to pick up the last rays of sun when cars are less likely to have their lights on and you've at least got a vague opportunity of being spotted from further away.

@NeverDropYourMooncup the berries explanation makes perfect sense to me 🍒🫐🍓

It’s definitely a very specific circumstance. I do worry about visibility. For over jackets - most are floro yellow. I also wear red but then get concerned about colour blindness. I only cycle during the day and always use lights if using roads.

Not just cyclists in my area. I think pedestrians in rural areas should be aware too. I once nearly hit a lady and her dog. It was dark and she was dressed in all black with a black dog down a country road. Luckily I saw them just in time.

There is lots of pink and orange Hi Viz out there aimed at horse riders. Many are very light weight and not at all restrictive.

I think a lot of horse riders have already got the message that yellow is hard to see in some conditions - it also blends in very well with oilseed rape which is a popular crop in some areas.

Hi Viz isn't just to help cars to see you but also can help emergency services find you if you've had an accident and fallen off.

I also don't understand why you wouldn't want to make yourself more visible, I think a lot of people don't realise how hard it is to see someone in the shade in black clothing on a bright day!

OP I know exactly the type of road you mean, and the visibility is tricky. Especially on a very sunny day going into dappled shade where it’s much darker.

I live on an urban cycleway where yellow high vis works fine, but a significant minority have no high vis and no lights and are dressed in black. It feels like a risk every time I nose out of a parking space, they are so hard to see with the inadequate street lighting, especially if they’re going fast.

This isn't quite OP's point but it shows how much wearing different shades of hi Viz can help you stand out.

I cycle but mostly city and never in the dark so I didnt know. I do have a red Jersey but I picked it becumause I had a bike that a red stripe on it so wanted to coordinate with my bike haha 😄

Thanks for the info there are country lanes near me but I tend to avoid them as alot of cycling groups use them and I also just prefer cycling wider urban roads as it reduces some risk from some drivers who get impatient on rural roads and being held up...I cycle for fun so I can be a bit picky on what route I do

Especially on a very sunny day going into dappled shade where it’s much darker.

Add in lanes winding so you can go from blinding straight ahead sun, so your sunglasses are on, round a bend into both less sun and shade faster than your vision can react. Of course people should drive according to conditions and not bomb along such lanes (deer and sheep haven't got the message about hi- vis) but errors of judgment are unfortunately not uncommon.

OP, YES absolutely!

That combo of fluorescent green shirt and black leggings is a nightmare.

Near me there are lanes lined with beech trees. Sunlight through beech trees is the exact same colour green. The cyclists blend in perfectly. The sunlight moves as the trees move in the wind so even moving cyclists don't show up easily. Perfect camouflage.

I'm sure they don't realise. I wish someone would do a campaign - get them all to wear pale blue or fluorescent pink - colours that don't occur in nature.

I'm with you @HauntedGusset. I was driving behind a cyclist on a road with different areas of shade and at points he practically disappeared!

I'm puzzled by @Rainbox99

Here we are, discussing the fact that a specific colour range makes cyclists almost impossible to see in rural environments, and suggesting a way to better protect those cyclists from harm.

And yet we are somehow wrong. Surely the fact that multiple people are saying the same thing, would make anyone with any common sense WANT to adapt to those conditions?

Some people are very strange !