A woman is a woman

[EmotionSickness]

For those who have been following the Tory conference and general themes of their speeches…

How do you feel about Sunak’s speech?

I know there has been a lot of discussion on here from those who didn’t want to vote for a party that didn’t know the definition of a woman.

Rishi has stated clearly that “a woman is a woman and a man is a man.” While I’d argue that still isn’t a definition, per se, he is appeasing this way of thinking.

So I’m just wondering. Is this enough for you to vote Tory at the next election?

No. Sunak must think we are all thick if he thinks that will win him an election.

There are a number of trans fawning Conservatives as well and wasn’t it Teresa May’s govt who mooted self ID?

I am not selfish or stupid enough to vote Tory and I consider myself a ‘gender critical’ feminist. I hope the tide is turning as far as Labour is concerned but I would spoil my ballot rather than vote Tory.

"If you choose to base your vote on that, you are not a feminist."

There is an argument to be made that this is the single most important, existential threat to women's rights and struggle for equality in our and quite possibly our daughters' generation.

it has to be our priority as feminists. If we can't even define ourselves as the female of our species, we can't hope to fight against women's issues around the world such as FGM, safe abortion, equal opportunities and legal rights. And all that before the glaringly obvious dangers in sex-segregated spaces such as shelters, prisons and lost opportunities for girls and women in sports, education, careers.

In fact, I would argue that as a feminist, it is your duty to put this issue at the top of your agenda when considering who to work for. All else that is important for women's struggle depends on this core question of whether or not females as a class will be able to define ourselves and fight for ourselves going forward.

Ah I see - so the “transphobia” is pointing out that just because “Brenda” puts on a dress, he’s not a woman

right - thank you for the sunlight ☀️

The torys do not care about women or transpeople or lgbtq+, they are not interested in making meaningful change they just want to dog whistle to distract from critical issues like COL, NHS and the environment. You want to help women? Direct funds to prosecuting rape and providing safe l refugees and grants to allow women to escape abuse. Deal with prohibitively expensive childcare, force absent father's to pay for their children or face penalties. Invest in training for doctors on womens issues so we arent ignored or questioned. Allow lgbtq+ people from countries where they face death to come here safely.

Then I'll believe you give a shit about women. Once we've put the fires out Ill talk to you about toliets but until then, i dont care.

Here we go again, we've just had a long quite ugly thread about this.

He is saying what some people want to hear just so he can win the election. He would say the sky was purple if he thought it would help.

There is so much more he could actually do for women rather than a cheap soundbite that means nothing.

Yes. If Tories are the only ones who dare to recognise women and women’s sex based rights, they are the only ones who get my vote.

Not great, but I'm still not going to vote tory. My MP is Labour anyway, and I live in a very strong Labour area. Tories have no chance of getting I'm here (famous last words, I know).
The tories don't give a fuck about me, my family, my community, vulnerable people, the NHS, disabled people etc.
I've always voted either Labour, or Green occasionally 😬.

Labour might say TWAW but look at the state of the erosion of women / safety etc now. It’s all under Tory leadership. They’ve let it get this far. They’ve let women’s language be erased from the nhs guidelines and allowed nhs to tell women they aren’t allowed to discriminate if their HCP is a trans persons, they’ve allowed all of this ridiculousness. If they really cared about women and this subject it would have been clamped down on long ago, not just now. It’s transparent and anyone falling for it is an utter fool.

Right, so you think the Conservatives are the answer? Keep dreaming.

The fact that a woman is an adult human female with needs separate from all males should NOT be a party political position.

Women need to put all parties to task on this issue.

I don't think it's enough to win the the election for the Tories but by god the Labour Party need to do better.

Women should not have to tolerate the fact that women have been -

• Raped by trans women (males) in NHS single sex women's wards and then told by the police that this could not have happened because no man was on the ward.
• That women have been sexually assaulted in women's prisons by a trans woman (male).
• That women have been denied single sex rape crisis care because women's provision includes trans women (males).
• Girls in schools have had to tolerate trans girls (boys) in their single sex spaces such as toilets.
• Children are being taught gender as fact.

So whilst this is not enough to win the election in my opinion Labour voters should not put up and shut up about the Labour Party stance on this just because the Tories would be worse. Women deserve better. We are fully human.

Do older people not count as people in your world, then?
Sorry to disappoint, but people of all ages irl do know the difference between men and women, and think it's absolutely fucking ridiculous that this even needs to be said.

I rather resent being told that i'm not feminist if I dont vote Tory because Rishi Sunak said something.

This is it. There are vulnerable people on both sides of the debate who need better access to services and protection. The conversation needs much more consideration to become something actually constructive and productive. There are perfectly valid and legitimate trans people who are in need of access to things and that can't and shouldn't be ignored, but equally it can't be at the complete expense of women. It's too complex an issue for them to be over simplifying for political gain.

But putting that aside for a moment- those services that people need access to are being chronically underfunded by the tories. Crime rates are rising accordingly and they're suggesting the general public be the ones to solve that.

The approach to immigration would have been laughable had it not been so bitterly depressing.

The tories work for rich white men and just pretend to work for the rest of us. I try to vote in accordance with who will benefit the majority of society. There aren't enough working class politicians in the tory Party who haven't been Eton educated and who aren't career politicians.

Your final paragraph is very telling and is straight out of the 60's and 70's labour / union playbook.

Tell women you'll get round to addressing their concerns once you've sorted out the important stuff (which means never) with a side of belittlment and ridicule. Nice.

😂😂😂

What a puerile response.

All this gender nonsense emerged under Tory rule. Why would we want more of it?

Hear, hear. Very well said.

I thought it was all mostly a dog whistle to the right and rather transphobic in places.

I am concerned about transwomen being allowed access carte blanche to women/girls only spaces but also support someone being able to change sex in accordance with the law, and I would acknowledge anyone by how they wanted to be referred to.

Tories have probably lost all LGBT+ support. What a shame. 😏

It’s not transphobic to state simple biological facts. No-one on this thread is saying that they don’t like trans people or that trans people shouldn’t have rights. They are just saying that trans women are not women and there should be safe spaces for women that men, including trans women, should not have access to.

Yes. They are the only ones to stand up and say this.

I'm am not really sure what he thinks he is saying with that statement tbh, but it would be somewhere down the list of hundreds of reasons I would never vote for that party.

Absolutely not.

As with the last election, the Tories have sold their souls to the extreme right-wing/anti vax/ cry woke/flag flying/ pro Trump/ have-the-right-to-own-a-golliwog/ absolutely anti immigration brigade.

The dog whistle politics is ramping - probably 99.9% stop the boats but there will be other 'anti woke' sentiments peppered around for good measure. That's their only way to keep 'average Briton' Tories onside, sadly.

No chance - to use vulnerable groups (trans people and women) as a political winner in that way is low.

It's not possible for a human being to change sex though.

A male who modifies his body and gets a GRC is still male and still poses the same risk to females as every other male.

Women have single sex provisions for a reason - to protect us against all males. This is not because all males will harm us but it is an acknowledgement that some might.