A woman is a woman

[EmotionSickness]

For those who have been following the Tory conference and general themes of their speeches…

How do you feel about Sunak’s speech?

I know there has been a lot of discussion on here from those who didn’t want to vote for a party that didn’t know the definition of a woman.

Rishi has stated clearly that “a woman is a woman and a man is a man.” While I’d argue that still isn’t a definition, per se, he is appeasing this way of thinking.

So I’m just wondering. Is this enough for you to vote Tory at the next election?

No.

But if the Tories actually pass legislation to strengthen women's sex based rights and undo some of the damage that has been done in the name of "trans rights" before the next election, I might actually consider it.

He needs to put his money where his mouth is.

I won't be voting for Labour or the Lib Dems though. I gave the Lib Dems a second chance after tuition fees and they blew it.

Yes, exactly. That's what also annoyed me about the speech - who has been in government and able to influence these things for the last 13 years, let me see now? 🤔

It was as if they are coming in as a new administration and are not the ones who have been fucking the country up for over a decade.

Interesting timing for this post after Labour win in Scotland?

Labour candidate Michael Shanks received 17,845 votes, beating the second-placed SNP candidate Katy Loudon, who got 8,399 votes. There was a swing to Labour from the SNP of 20%.

I held my nose and voted labour last time. Idk what to do. But it’ll make little difference as we are in a Tory stronghold.

I was referring to the legal position, not the biological one.

Why, the SNP is fully committed to removing women's rights in favour of males who identify as trans?

Emerged under, not done by, there is a difference.

At the moment there is a fight back via various tribunals etc because what has been happening in various places / to various women is not enshrined in law.
If labour / lib dems / greens get in it may well become enshrined in law....

You're being completely contradictory here.

Either you believe women and girls should be entitled to single sex spaces or you support people being able to "change sex", i.e. be treated for all intents and purposes as if they are the opposite sex to the one they actually are.

It's not really possible to support both those things.

If you try to keep sitting on that fence you will get splinters in your arse. 😉

Not good. But better than voting for a party that has decimated the country, literally robbed it’s people to give backhanders and bonuses to rich cunts and a party who is doing everything they can to line their own pockets before leaving an empty shell of a country for the next chumps to deal with.

Ok but why should some males have laws that entitle them to use spaces for females?

It's a legal fiction, it's impossible for a human being to change sex and this is what has led directly to women being harmed in single sex spaces by trans women.

Why do the trans women (males) count more in this scenario than the women they have harmed?

Why should we have laws which support harm to women?

What has Labour or Lib Dems said that makes you think we’ll get less of it?

Do you think they’ll provide single sex spaces. How?

Fuck them. If they disagreed with it they've had THIRTEEN YEARS to enact different legislation, and they have had majority governments who would have been able to do that easily.

Only now they are bothered, when they likely won't be in power soon so won't actually have to do anything.

The entire speech was just pissing in the wind.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I said in my original post you quoted that I agreed that transwomen should not have carte blanche access to women's spaces.

" so you think the Conservatives are the answer?"
"I rather resent being told that i'm not feminist if I dont vote Tory because Rishi Sunak said something"

I didn't say who you should vote for.

I said that as feminists, this issue needs to be at the forefront when we consider who to vote for. It is up to you to judge which party or candidate will work in the direction that serves the feminist cause.

And I said that in opposition to the person who said "If you choose to base your vote on that, you are not a feminist."

She is wrong. This is the most important, existential issue in feminism at present and it is entirely normal for feminists to focus on it when choosing who to vote for.

If this debate goes against us, women will not be able to define ourselves as the female of our species and fight against women's issues, campaign for equality and safety in many contexts such as education, careers, sports, shelters, prisons, any many others.

In fairness to the tories and on this one soul issue alone, the world believed what they were being told. There has been a worldwide push so it’s not as though they realised what was happening 13 years ago.

No. Way

I won't be voting

I think the idea that the Tories have hijacker’s a really emotive issue for political gain is a bit blinkered. If a particular issue drives a political party to power then those voting based on that issue believe it is crucial going forwards or it wouldn’t be worth hijacking. We live in a democracy. That means chosen by the electorate based on the things THEY care about. If half your population are expected to put their own safety last and prioritise everything else ahead of that then they are right to say “no” and forced to vote with their feet. It’s not bigoted to want my daughters and mother to be able to go to the toilet, or a hospital or a jail or a changing room or compete in sport in a single sex environment.

We need that speech backed up by action.

I'd believe it if they did something to advance women's lives. I suspect the awful state of social care and the costs of housing, whether rented or bought, has a far bigger impact on far many more women yet where we're the announcements around those issues?
And what have they done in the last 13 years to mitigate the impact of trans issues on women's safe spaces?

It's all well and good him saying it but how things are now has largely happened under a Conservative government so I think it's too late.
Labour are worse on this but are better on other things. I couldn't ever bring myself to vote Conservative anyway I don't think (I'm not loyal to Labour but have always felt quite strongly anti tory!)

No, because I have never voted Tory. I think there needs to be a proper grown up discussion, by which I mean no insults, about how women are protected but others are also given safe spaces and the way of competing in sports etc that doesn't cause issues for women. And less of the TWAW stuff too.

To be fair I think the Labour swing in this area is not simply to do with the SNP policies on gender, and more to do with the fact that they have also been in power in Scotland for a long time and while they are doing better than the Tories in some ways a lot of people also feel they are making empty promises. Rutherglen would traditionally have been a Labour/Scottish Labour area, and the swing is partly due to people there feeling jaded with both the Tories (Westminster) and the SNP (Holyrood). The new labour leader is also probably more likeable than the new SNP one, imho.

Hard no for me.

This. I love mumsnet .It is my safe space. I am surrounded by women who absolutely feel that if a man says he's a woman then that's that, he is now a woman . Not a transwoman, a woman in the same way that I am a woman. Its as if they are sniffing glue and it enables them to see things I just cannot see. The inside of my head just screams " That's a MAN". It's exhausting.